Christology and Preterism

Nope, sorry, you did not answer the OP. Did Jesus come in spirit in AD 70, or physically? You still have not answered it. Apparently you are afraid to take a stand on the deity and humanity of our Lord Jesus Christ. (I hope that this is not true, but it certainly looks that way.)

Look again at what you quoted of mine. My post that time was not about Christ's divine/human nature, but about the fact that everyone in the whole world will see Jesus at His coming. You are seriously mixed up on this thread--maybe because it is about the hypostatic union of Christ--something you admitted you had never heard of.

I have several comments here.

1. Do you actually think this thread is about you, that I am trying to trip up little old you? No, a 1000 times no. It is about the Lord Jesus Christ.

2. So then, you compare me to the Pharisees and yourself to Jesus?

3. You miss the point of the entire thread when you sidetrack it onto "what kind of body Jesus has in His resurrection." It is very clear that Jesus now has a resurrection body, and that it is different from His original earthly body. So the question for the preterist remains: if Jesus came spiritually but not physically in AD 70, where was His resurrection body?

It's not a difficult question if one's Christology is correct.

I see. This means that (1) you can't answer the OP, or (2) you refuse to let go of your "spiritual coming of Christ in AD 70," your preterism, no matter what the Christological ramifications are of that belief.

Either way, with this statement you tacitly give me the victory in the debate.

 

Folks, I am not trying to trick anyone. I'm presenting the doctrines of Christology in reference to preterism. This is not something that a preterist can lightly set aside and ignore. It is foundational.

The doctrines of Christology are so important that the Apostle John wrote (2 John vv. 9-11, my translation):

9 Whoever goes too far and does not remain in the doctrine of Christ doesn't have God. Whoever remains in the doctrine of Christ, that person has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you people and doesn't bring this doctrine, don't receive him into the house, and don't speak greetings of joy to him.
11 The reason is that the person speaking greetings of joy to him is sharing his evil deeds.

This passage is extremely relevant to this thread and preterism, because it was written in response to "Christian" Gnosticism, which taught that Jesus was only a spirit and had no physical presence. The gentle, loving Apostle John so hated this doctrine that it is said that when he learned that the Gnostic Cerinthus was in the bathhouse he had entered with his disciple, he exclaimed that they should flee the place lest they be caught in God's judgment on the Gnostic!

 

Well of course they won't need cellphones. That was just an illustration.

 

Okey dokey.

 

I describe Him as a spirit coming without a body, because the incarnation had not yet happened, and "God is a spirit" (John 4:24).

However, the 2nd Coming of Christ is after His incarnation, in which He eternally took on the human form.

 

Folks, I've described the preterist "spiritual" 2nd Coming of Christ as meaning his physical body had to die somewhere up in Heaven. (No preterist has dared answer this, because it destroys their whole argument for a "spiritual" coming.) Here is more Scriptural evidence of my position:

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:26).

 

Sorry, this makes little sense to me in light of the OP, so I can't answer it.

No, not because I think the Bible says so. That matters next to nothing. What matters is interpreting the Bible with a grammatical-historical hermeneutic, not allegorically.

Sorry, reasonable doesn't cut it. The prophecies of the Second Coming by Jesus Himself are specific and physical. If Jesus did not come physically in AD 70 (and there is absolutely no evidence that He did), then the prophecies are not fulfilled.

If Christ "came in judgment," there should be prophecies to that effect. But the prophecies are clear that He Himself will come again.

No, what I said specifically was that God lead my grandfather to a premil position through his personal study and literal interpretation of the Scriptures. My own personal journey was different, but through my own study of Scripture I came to the same conclusion.

Concerning your beliefs, if you have decided you are a preterist, then no, God did not lead you there because that position is a violation of the historical-grammatical hermeneutic, which God endorses in Neh. 8:8 if you must have a passage.

In all other disciplines, in all sciences, in all situations, people interpret literally: traffic laws and other laws, contents on food items, instructions of various kinds, conversations, literature (recognizing figures of speech), recipes, etc. It's a mystery to me why otherwise good Christians think the Bible must be interpreted "spiritually" or allegorically.

 

A mistaken hermeneutic led you to your beliefs.

Look, we can't both be right. Either you are right or I am. I would be surprised to have you say that, "Oh, God lead both of us." God leads no one to mistaken doctrine.

 

I'm getting tired of your misquoting of me. I never said this.

I simply interpret the Bible literally. You are welcome to not interpret it literally, if you wish.

Having said that, I think I've proven handily on this thread from the Bible the folly of the full preterist view that Jesus came "spiritually" but not physically in AD 70. I'm satisfied with that.

Prophecy is like Creationism. If you interpret the Bible evidence of both literally, you will come out a premil Creationist.