Preterism Proof

it would be worth having an adult conversation with. But sadly you are completely ignorant of the language of Matthew 24.

So far you have said,
"Jesus does not have the kingdom yet",
"He's going to be the prime minister and do the NUTZ AND BOLTZ"
"God Caused the Holocaust"

If you would read slower, it says the "people of the prince" which makes the people the subject not the prince.

 

Spurgeon was clearly PRETERIST in his applicaton of the Olivet Discourse.
From the Commentary:

"Matthew 24:15-18. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet stand in the holy place, (whose readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

This portion of our Saviour’s words appears to relate solely to the destruction of Jerusalem. As soon as Christ’s disciples saw “the abomination of desolation”, that is, the Roman ensigns, with their idolatrous emblems, “stand in the holy place”, they knew that the time for them to escape had arrived; and they did “ flee into the mountains.” The Christians in Jerusalem and the surrounding towns and villages, “in Judaea”, availed themselves of the first opportunity for eluding the Roman armies, and fled to the mountain city of Pella, in Perea, where they were preserved from the general destruction which overthrew the Jews. There was no time to spare before the final investment of the guilty city, the man “on the house-top” could “not come down to take anything out of his house”, and the man “in the field” could not “return back to take his clothes.” They must flee to the mountains in the greatest haste the moment that they saw “Jerusalem compassed with armies” (Luke 21:20).

 

Ahh... and the Old Covenant ended...when?

 

Were the things David's claimed God had done in his song, done By God LITERALLY , or not?

Remeber, you are on record as COMPLETELY REJECTING anyone "spiritualizing away" such language as we Find David using (and you spiritualizing).

But maybe that just for the rest of us?
I suppose It's A-OK when you do it with scriptures you choose, just nobody else is allowed to....

As Did all the prophets, even the New Testament ones.

Whats your point?

Really?
Luke 21:20-22

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Yeah there's not a quark of evidence that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD...

Or course It has.
--COMPARE THIS PASSAGE--

Matthew 24:15-21

"When you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.

But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!...For then there will be a great tribulation"


--TO THIS PARALLEL PASSAGE IN LUKE--


Luke 21:20-23

"When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.

Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people"


Roby, Luke himself shows us that the period in view in Christ's discourse is the destruction of Jerusalem when the desolation of the city took place at the hands of the Romans -- i.e., AD 67-70.

According to Luke's INFALLIBLE testimony, The time of the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet is simultaneous with the time when the Jerusalem church saw the city surrounded by armies just prior to its desolation at the hands of the gentile Roman armies.

Certainly, the world will see plenty of troubles. However, Matthew 24:15-20 and Luke 21:20-23 were marvellously fulfilled in real history, proving the prophetic powers of Jesus and the apostles in undeniable fashion. No skeptic alive can deny it or get around it.

What manner was that?

As I have shown painstakingly time and again, and you have provided nothing scriptural to refute, this is all apocalyptic language that the prophets, INCLUDING JESUS HIMSELF used time and time again to discuss the fall of a nation or empire.

The biblical examples below of previous comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34).

The cloud-coming of Revelation 1:7 that "every eye would see" is shown in Revelation 14:14-20 to be an event that occurs in the heavenly realms. As the passage reveals, Christ's actions and commands in the heavenlies result in various tribulation-period disasters that transpire on earth. Simply put, Revelation 14:14-20 is the cloud-coming that "every eye would see." This is significant, for St. John is not describing the coming of Christ as some visual spectacular with cumulus clouds in the skies overhead, but as the coming of Yahweh himself, making Christ equal with the Father.

We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16).

As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation.
You have failed to show otherwise, from either scripture or History.

 

There is no such Biblical teaching of a resurrection of the Living.
It's called the resurrection fo the DEAD for a reason.

 

Matthew 24:19-21. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It must have been a peculiarly trying time for the women who had to flee from their homes just when they needed quiet and rest. How thoughtful and tender was our pitiful Saviour in thus sympathizing with suffering mothers in their hour of need! “Flight . . in the winter” or “on the sabbath day” would have been attended with special difficulties; so the disciples were exhorted to “pray” that come other time might be available. The Lord knew exactly when they would be able to escape, yet he bade them pray that their flight might not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath-day. The wise men of the present day would have said that prayer was useless under such conditions, not so the great Teacher and Example of his praying people; he taught that such a season was the very time for special supplication. The reason for this injunction was thus stated by the Saviour: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” Read the record written by Josephus of the destruction of Jerusalem, and see how truly our Lord’s words were fulfilled. The Jews impiously said, concerning the death of Christ, “His blood be on us, and on our children.” Never did any other people invoke such an awful curse upon themselves, and upon no other nation did such a judgment ever fall. We read of Jews crucified till there was no more wood for making crosses; of thousands of the people slaying one another in their fierce faction fights within the city; of so many of them being sold for slaves that they became a drug in the market, and all but valueless, and of the fearful carnage when the Romans at length entered the doomed capital and the blood-curdling story exactly bears out the Saviour’s statement uttered nearly forty years before the terrible events occurred.


You're welcome.

 

I guess we agree, since Spurgeon saw the great tribulation as being a 1st century event.

 

Zactly. Thank you again. There are 'Preterist applications' within ALL the eschatological views.

 

Well you have got that wrong again, it was not the prince who was to come, but the PEOPLE of the prince who was to come who would destroy the temple.

The destruction was not part of the six things that were determined in the 70 weeks, other things were a result of that.

 

I believe the idolatry of salvation is pathetic and the obsession with it as good proof there is no faith in Jesus there at all.

Matthew 6
34“So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

 

Indeed, apparently God will simply loose a few asteroids from the Asteroid Belt and send them our way - scary.

Asteroids - In Depth | Planets - NASA Solar System Exploration

HankD

 

What is "the idolatry of salvation"?

HankD

 

Or perhaps a few black holes.