Original Sin Again

We were "condemned already"... Satan has us concentrating on"the fall" but it is a part of the redemption plan. The physical world was without sin until Adam not the spiritual. Mankind is an opportunity to be saved

 

They were innocent...of sin.

That is just basic.

When they did sin, they were expelled from the Garden and suffered the consequences of sin.

And there is no Biblical basis for your view that the Physical Universe was created for Satan and that he was here when God created the world.


God bless.

 

You have a very diminutive view of the One you are dependent on for your eternal destiny.

Not until Adam sinned we weren't.

I was talking to a Pastor today who is hyper Calvinist, who made the statement "I was saved before time began." In God's persepctive this was a surety, but the reality is that he was not saved until he turned to Christ in faith.

Likewise, Man was not condemned until Adam sinned.

Satan might have you concentrating on certain things, but please don't include others in that.

While the Fall is the reason why Redemption is necessary, its not part of the Redemptive Plan, any more than starvation is "part of relief efforts."

Which blows your theory the earth was made as a prison for demons out of the water, doesn't it.

And the Baptist Board is an opportunity to become a Baptist.


God bless.

 

There is no "age of accountability" in Scripture. Men are held accountable when they understand the will of God and violate that. It was true for Adam, and it is true for every man born into this world.

Or not.

That is the heart of the Gospel.

But it goes beyond that, because from the beginning (when Adam and Eve sinned) the penalty for sin was vicariously placed on animals. God made coats of skins to "cover" their sins, rather than exact the penalty upon them when they sinned. If you look at Abel's offering you will see there, too, sacrifice for sin:

Genesis 4
King James Version (KJV)

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:


We see Noah offering sacrifice also:


Genesis 8:20
King James Version (KJV)

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.


We see Abraham, Job, and Jacob also offering, prior to the establishment of the Covenant of Law.

The point being, God has shown grace to Man, in not holding him accountable for his sin, but offering provision for remission of sin and atonement.

But the focus would be in their becoming like God, to "know good and evil," which is not an intellectual knowledge, but experiential. We know they understood good and evil intellectually, that is evident in Eve's statement to Satan:


The knowledge of evil:

Genesis 3
King James Version (KJV)

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


The knowledge of Good:


6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


It may be she thought it was poisonous, and that is why God said don't eat of it, and somehow Satan convinced her it was edible.

The point being, they became like God when an experiential understanding of good and evil began in their lives, which was immediate.


God bless.

 

Okay, I just have to ask...what exactly do you see as relevant in this?


God bless.

 

Yeah!... With Wlyken and Blynken... Brother Glen

 

"Original sin " was taught to grade school children in 1777.

 

DarrelC

This is your posiion

God put two "innocents" in the same place and time as the arch criminal He had already banished from Heaven. Rather shortsighted? no

 

No.

 

You would hold that Jesus in His humanity is exactly same as ours at birth, but we are born with sin natures, are you saying Jesus was also than? and the Virgin Birth is the method used by God to conceives jesus not to be tainted and affected by the fall, do you deny that also?

 

the view of original Sin, Virgin Birth, fall of Adam, natures of Christ are all traditional and Orthodox!

 

I have been reading the responses from everyone and I am surprises that these verses were not quoted from David in the Psalms and I especially like the comments by John Gill on Psalms 51:5... What is of interest to me is that the Christian's hem and haw over original sin but the heathen according Gill affirm it!... Go Figure?... Brother Glen

Psalms 51:1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity
This cannot be understood of any personal iniquity of his immediate parents; since this respects his wonderful formation in the womb, in which both he and they were wholly passive, as the word here used is of that form; and is the amazing work of God himself, so much admired by the psalmist, ( Psalms 139:13-16 ) ; and cannot design any sinfulness then infused into him by his Maker, seeing God cannot be the author of sin; but of original sin and corruption, derived to him by natural generation: and the sense is, that as soon as ever the mass of human nature was shaped and quickened, or as soon as soul and body were united together, sin was in him, and he was in sin, or became a sinful creature;
and in sin did my mother conceive me;
by whom cannot be meant Eve; for though she is the mother of all living, and so of David, yet could not, with any propriety, be said to conceive him: this only could be said of his immediate parent, not even of his next grandmother, much less of Eve, at the distance of almost three thousand years. Nor does the sin in which he was conceived intend any sin of his parents, in begetting and conceiving him, being in lawful wedlock; which acts cannot be sinful, since the propagation of the human species by natural generation is a principle of nature implanted by God himself; and is agreeably to the first law of nature, given to man in a state of innocence, "increase and multiply", ( Genesis 1:28 ) . Marriage is the institution of God in paradise; and in all ages has been accounted "honourable in all, [when] the bed is undefiled", ( Hebrews 13:4 ) . Nor does it design his being conceived when his mother was in "profluviis", of which there is no proof, and is a mere imagination, and can answer no purpose; much less that he was conceived in adultery, as the contenders for the purity of human nature broadly intimate; which shows how much they are convicted by this text, to give into such an interpretation of it, at the expense of the character of an innocent person, of whom there is not the least suggestion of this kind in the Holy Scriptures; but on the contrary, she is represented as a religious woman, and David valued himself upon his relation to her as such, ( Psalms 86:16 ) ( 116:16 ) . Besides, had this been the case, as David would have been a bastard, he would not have been suffered to enter into the congregation of the Lord, according to the law in ( Deuteronomy 23:2 ) ; whereas he often did with great delight, ( Psalms 42:4 ) ( 55:14 ) . Moreover, it is beside his scope and design to expose the sins of others, much less his own parents, while he is confessing and lamenting his own iniquities: and to what purpose should he mention theirs, especially if he himself was not affected by them, and did not derive a corrupt nature from them? Nor is the sin he speaks of any actual sin of his own, and therefore he does not call it, as before, "my" iniquity and "my" sin; though it was so, he having sinned in Adam, and this being in his nature; but "iniquity" and "sin", it being common to him with all mankind. Hence we learn the earliness of the corruption of nature; it is as soon as man is conceived and shapen; and that it is propagated from one to another by natural generation; and that it is the case of all men: for if this was the case of David, who was born of religious parents, was famous for his early piety, and from whose seed the Messiah sprung, it may well be concluded to be the case of all. And this corruption of nature is the fountain, source, and spring of all sin, secret and open, private and public; and is mentioned here not as an extenuation of David's actual transgressions, but as an aggravation of them; he having been, from his conception and formation, nothing else but a mass of sin, a lump of iniquity; and, in his evangelical repentance for them, he is led to take notice of and mourn over the corruption of his nature, from whence they arose. The Heathens themselves affirm, that no man is born without sin F3.
FOOTNOTES:

 

no one is saying we are not sinners, just who is to blame? ourselves or Adam?

 

Once again, you do not address what I said. You seem to have ignored post #31.
Did I say or suggest babies in the womb committed sin? Nope, yet you have wasted my time repeating that falsehood.
Please stop addressing me unless you want to address my actual position rather than your straw-man assertions.

 

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--

Pre-fall Life
Post fall Sin and death.