I Felt I Should Drop in and Explain Why I Left

If you ever need to talk I also live in the Orlando area

 

The enemy (demons and heretics) would have a far more difficult time if Baptists ever got their own houses of worship in order. The vast majority of Baptist 'worship' services that I have attended have felt far more like a funeral for a dead Savior than a celebration of a risen Savior. I sometimes wonder if the congregation actually knows HOW to sing ... they certainly demonstrate no indication that they have anything to shout for joy over.

 

If Steven is open to this, here are quotes about the nature of tongues from much more capable linguists than I am, men who have done actual research.

William Samarin researched modern tongues extensively, finding that they had no syntax or semantics, that they were "characterized by strings of usually simple syllables that are not matched systematically with any semantic system" (The New Charismatics, by Richard Quebedeaux, p. 202).

Linguist William Samarin observed Charismatics for five years, and said, "Glossalalia is indeed like language in some ways, but this is only because the speaker (unconsciously) wants it to be like language. Yet in spite of superficial similarities, glossalalia is fundamentally not language" (quoted in Charismatic Chaos, by John MacArthur, p. 278, from Samarin's book Tongues of Men and Angels, 227).

Wayne Oates, in "A Socio-Psychological Study of Glossalalia" (in Tongue Speaking in Biblical, Historical and Psychological Perspective), concluded that "Distortions of speech characteristic of early childhood are submerged as a child matures, but these distortions reappear in glossalalia when an individual tries to verbalize long-repressed religious convictions for the first time; he reverts to an early stage of communicative development" (ibid, 201).

Ongoing research by Paul de Lacy, who has examined 19 hours of tongues speaking: "So far, my research suggests that glossolalia has no lexicon (i.e. no words/morphemes), and by this no syntax, morphology, or semantics. It is essentially 'pure' phonology and phonetics." (http://www.pauldelacy.net/webpage/re...ossolalia.html).

"Of late, glossalalia has become increasingly the vogue with certain religious bodies, notably the Pentecostal groups, which attempt to repeat, for 'charismatic' purposes, the 'speaking in tongues' of the New Testament. The difference between glossalalia and creative word coinage lies in the fact that the former lacks a recognizable basis of both etymology and meaning" (Mario Pei, The Story of Language, p. 170; 1949 & 1965).

"glossalalia 'Speaking in tongues': i. e. uttering sounds under conditions of religious ecstasy that are believed, wrongly, to be in unknown languages" (Oxford Concise Dictionary of Linguistics, P. H. Matthews, p. 160).

Theologian Monroe Parker: "Tongues are baby talk."

 

Unfortunately many Charismatics are in the ditch on the left hand side of the road. Its even sadder that many Baptists are in the ditch on the right hand side of the road.

 

If your faith is not based on the Word of God, it is counterfeit. Rom. 10:17--"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

To me, here is the key. If you are truly filled with the Spirit, you will see people saved. That is Biblical. Acts 4:31--"And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness."

The Bible goes dead set opposite to the Charismatic/Pentecostal teaching that tongues are the sign of the fullness of the Holy Spirit. It is not tongues, it is power in soul-winning.

So I ask you: has your gift on tongues given you boldness in witnessing and helped you win anyone to Christ? If not, it is fake.

For the correct perspective on the fullness of the Holy Spirit, I highly recommend The Holy Spirit: Who He Is and What He Does, by R. A. Torrey, and The Power of Pentecost and the Fullness of the Spirit, by John R. Rice.

If you refuse to do that, do your own Bible study. I dare you to read through the entire NT, noting every single occurrence where the Holy Spirit and tongues occur. If you do this honestly you will discover much. (I did this myself from the OT and NT both.) If your perspective is nothing but the Charismatic perspective, you are cheating yourself and not being a Berean.

 

I am a Baptist, but I believe the gifts of The Spirit operate today as they did in the early Church. Having said that, I have seen much lunacy and fleshly nonsense carried out and attributed to The Spirit. Be careful. Always ask: 1. Does this line up with scripture? 2. Does this glorify God or man?

 

Here is a testimony, which I have in tract form, of a good Baptist lady who was deceived into speaking in tongues and then realized that her tongues were demon-lead: The Bondage of Deceit. (I have it in tract form, so I recommend it, but I do not know about the rest of the material on the site.)

If you are filled with the Spirit, you will have the fruit of the Spirit, not tongues: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control. This is a description of the Holy Spirit Himself. If you do not find yourself growing in all of these areas, it is not from the Holy Spirit.

 

Sure:

"... Fair enough. Second inquiry.

The utterances which proceeds from your mouth, and of which you have lettered some of in this very forum, have you considered them in the light of Acts 20:30 KJB, and ask yourself, "How do I test that which is spoken to see whether or not it is holy or perversant; truth or error"?

Acts 20:30 KJB - Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.​

For instance, there have been such persons, under the influence of a spirit/s, and spake forth many things, and at those specific times, they were actually languages spoken/known by mankind upon the earth, and they themselves did not recognize what they were saying, but were simply speaking by the spirit/s, and it comes to be that a person within range of this audio, could understand what was said, being their native tongue, and knew that the other person/s was/were actually blaspheming [not praising] God [JEHOVAH].

Others, utter things that is/are completely unknown amongst all mankind as a language, and have no sentence structure, syntax, distinguishable verbs, nouns, adjectives, proper names, pronouns, punctuative tone, etc., but were simply a string [or broken strings] of repeated [or non-repeated] gutteral noises, or were mixes [amalgamations] of known words in the varied tongues of mankind, all of which were non-sensical, and unordered [chaotic, without form and void [empty of meaning], and thus brought only confusion and darkness to the persons and congregations participating therein, and though for a time a spirit of exhiliration was upon them, later a deeper depression would settle upon them, looking for the next arousal to new heights by this sensual stimulus].

Therefore, when you say that you both speak and translate [you are saying that you have the gifts to speak and translate] what foundational corroboration do you use to test it/them, and what are the other witnesses to substantiate it/them, that you have spoken an language/tongue, and that what was spoken/uttered indeed translates to what you personally say it does, as it is written, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." ..." - I Felt I Should Drop in and Explain Why I Left​

 

The phonetical utterances themselves, in such cases, do not ever have inherent consistent meaning or definition, but rather the feelings in that moment define the utterances, since the same phonetically given utterance is defined by each momentous feeling or emotion, and so there is no single definition for any given utterance. Each utterance, is an ever shifting, changing landscape, whose basis is in subjective feeling/emotion/sensation, being worked upon by a spirit/s. Even exactly repeated utterances in direct succession can have widely differing [subjective] meaning depending upon the persons emotional state at the time. It is basically raw emotionalism, pouring forth, that does not base its validity in concrete word [Bible].

Psalms 37:30 KJB - The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.

Proverbs 8:6 KJB - Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

Proverbs 8:7 KJB - For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

Proverbs 23:16 KJB - Yea, my reins shall rejoice, when thy lips speak right things.

Isaiah 45:19 KJB - I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Malachi 2:6 KJB - The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.​

So, in such a case as this, where the outward phonetics, though seemingly of the same, are and will always be different, because it does not seek outside validity, a set definitional standard, it does not seek through the external written text of the Bible [KJB] for its justification, but is the internal workings of the heart, brought out through the mouth, by overflowing sensualism, by manipulation of the emotional core by a spirit/s:

Proverbs 4:23 KJB - Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

Matthew 12:34 KJB - O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luke 6:45 KJB - A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Jude 1:16 KJB - These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.​

 

Actually, he needs the body of Christ, as jesus works in and thru his local assemblies now! That is why needs to get into a good bible believing church instead of the bad one now with!

 

Just curious as to where in the NT you can find that Baptism in the Holy Spirit and tongues as its evidence?

 

Do you or anyone there there claim to be modern day Apostle/Prophets than? Or to have gifts to heal and do miracles than?
And what would be the reason for God to give additional revelation, as we now have the completed written word?

 

There is NO example of the personal tongue language in Bible, and all of those times tongues happened was the person was speaking an unlearned but real language. They were used in evangelism /missionary outreach, was would be where I suspect God ONLY would be using them today, if still are in use!

 

Our friend who posted this OP is in dire trouble, as he is now tied into very bad theology, and even worse, he is moving away from the security afforded to him in a real bible based assembly, and he will not be getting helped by God while stuck among those fasle teachers!

 

Yeshua1/Dachaser1/JesusFan, you said yesterday that the book of Acts "was meant to be showing how how it was to be for all time forward!"

 

The real question is , what scripture do you use to autheticate your experiences? The Holy Spirit does NOT give anything other than real languages int eh gift of tongues, and there is NO Baptism in HS in the Scriptures!

 

yes its very serious and the behavior I described is very inappropriate in this thread as it is in any thread.