Featured The Holy Bible and The Unsaved

Thank you for this clarification, as I am a reformed baptist, and yet have heard and read that double predestination was different from what you outlined here. If this is the true meaning of the term, than I would see myself as holding to it also! The first posting, not the hyper cal version of the doctrine!

 

Holding to Double Predestination (as many within the Reformed movement have always held) does not involve equal ultimacy. The two sides are asymmetrical.

Look at Atpollards' post #17.

 

The gospel is not shared but rather declared.
The reprobate will to reject it as their will is bound by sin and self.
They have a self will...it is bound by sin and death.

 

Ephesians 2:1-10 NASB

1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
​

Every person is born one of the walking dead. Every salvation is a supernatural miracle wrought by God. Nobody just 'decides' to believe, belief is a miraculous gift from God to a dead people transforming them into His workmanship.
(That God chooses to do such a wonderful thing through so humble a means as allowing us to tell others of His goodness, makes it even more of a miracle.)

Romans 10:14-15 NASB

14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”​

 

It is a tough call, so I tend to hold off on throwing rocks.

Somehow John 12:32 (“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”) has to be reconciled with John 6:44 (“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.") without landing in the weeds of Universalism or Hyper-Calvinism which deny other biblical truths.

I don't know if all Calvinists see it like I do, but I agree that salvation is available to all men ... and all men follow their nature and say no. God has a 100% rejection rate from Human beings on his perfect offer. That is why we have Romans 8:28-30 ("And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.") ... God stepped in and handled matters himself: For our good and His glory.

 

I don't worry about what Calvinists might think, I am a 5 point Calvinist and do not want to present any personal opinions as representing 'most Calvinists' ... I don't know what most Calvinists think about a lot of things, just what all orthodox Calvinists believe about a few things.

It is funny when people claim that Calvinism isn't what the Bible teaches. I understand that many disagree with the Calvinist interpretation of some verses, but I know of no group that places more emphasis on Scripture and is more ready to post scriptures and discuss context to defend their positions. Nobody chooses Reformed Theology because it "just feels right". Everyone submits to the scriptural evidence and is convinced "that is how the word of God says it is".

John 3:16 is beautiful and powerful, but it is also part of a paragraph rather than a stand-alone sentence.

John 3:16-21 NASB

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”​

Verse 17 says that "the world might be saved through Him" yet no one seriously reads the bible and concludes universal salvation, so the 'world' cannot mean each and every person without exception.

Verse 18 goes on to make that clear by dividing all people into two groups, believe/not judged vs. not believe/judged.

Verse 19 of the same paragraph explains the judgement: "the Light has come into the world," (Jesus came to the world) "and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil." (and men loved evil and rejected Jesus).

Verse 20 makes it even clearer by telling why: "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed." ... so why do men/the world flee from Jesus, because we do evil and do not want our evil to be exposed. In short, people don't WANT to repent, we want to keep our sin hidden just like Adam and Eve did.

Verse 21 talks about "he who practices the truth" ... so who practices truth? (HINT: Luke 18:19) and "deeds ... having been wrought in God.” Once again, credit for evil deeds falls in the lap of 'men' and 'good' deeds are from the hand of God.

Which is exactly what Calvinism claims. People are Totally Incapable of taking the first step towards God ... we are dead for Pete's sake ... so God has to take the responsibility for every part of salvation if He wants to see anyone actually saved.

 

I am really trying to avoid a pointless Calvinism vs Arminianism debate (pointless because no one ever changes their minds) in a thread about The Bible and the Unsaved ... so @Saved-By-Grace , please understand if I don't respond any further. It isn't anything personal, just for the courtesy of the board.

 

Back on topic ...

Romans 1:18-21 NASB

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.​

 

You don't read the words of Jesus any different than than any does. He preached to a multitude .
when you read that passage you don't know who's elected who's reprobate so he preached to all men .
He might have known....you and I do not... but that didn't stop him from preaching .
in Acts 18 it didn't stop the Holy Spirit things didn't stop Paul from preaching so hold not your peace I have much people in the city he didn't say he had all people or possibly all could believe he said I have much people in the city he knew exactly how many were there we don't know we're not God that's not our business
our business is to be faithful to proclaim the message .
it's a message of Salvation to those who are being saved it's a message of damnation to those who reject it that's what's being preached.

 

Unlikely. Hyper-Calvinists believe that all evangelism is pointless. From THEOPEDIA:

The archetypal Hyper-Calvinist position may be found explicitly set forth in the confessional articles of the Gospel Standard (Baptist) Churches, specifically: Articles of Faith of the Gospel Standard Aid and Poor Relief Societies, (Leicester, England: Oldham & Manton Ltd., n.d.) -- most recently seen online here.

Article XXVI of the Gospel Standard articles: "We deny duty faith and duty repentance – these terms suggesting that it is every man’s duty spiritually and savingly to repent and believe. We deny also that there is any capability in man by nature to any spiritual good whatever. So that we reject the doctrine that man in a state of nature should be exhorted to believe in or turn to God."

Article XXXIII of the Gospel Standard articles: "Therefore, that for ministers in the present day to address unconverted persons, or indiscriminately all in a mixed congregation, calling upon them to savingly repent, believe, and receive Christ, or perform any other acts dependent upon the new creative power of the Holy Ghost, is, on the one hand, to imply creature power, and on the other, to deny the doctrine of special redemption."​

 

Your question did not ask for proof of the eternal punishment of the wicked. You asked "WHY" and directed it towards the "UNSAVED". Perhaps you need to clarify your question for me. What is it you are trying to ask?