Featured Doctrine or emotionalism.

Prove it. Prove that Catholics brought musical instruments into churches before anyone else. I refuse to believe it, and still consider it baloney.

As for Ps. 150 being the same type of command that, for example, the Decalogue is, that's baloney too. It shows a huge lack of understanding of what the poetic books are. Give me a quote from a recognized theologian--just one--who agrees with your position on this.

Talk is cheap. Give me a quote to show me where Spurgeon said that music instruments in the church are morally wrong. Better yet, show me where the Bible condemns musical instruments in the church. I'll even let you use the OT as well as the NT. Give me a single quote from anywhere in the Bible that condemns any musical instrument anywhere. I dare you. I double dog dare you, as they say in the South.

On the side of musical instruments in the church, we have two passages instructing us to sing psalms (Eph. 5:19, Col. 3:16). I find it patently ridiculous that we are instructed to sing Psalms--one of which is all about musical instruments (Ps. 150), and others which enjoin instruments (33, 43, etc., etc.) and yet not play the instruments they speak of.

 

What?

If eye has not see, nor ear heard, well then, one can only imagine what it must be like!

 

I don't think Spurgeon ever said it was "morally wrong," but it is well-known that Spurgeon's Metropolitan Tabernacle did not use them. From the following quotes it seems to me that Spurgeon considered musical instruments in worship "lawful, but not expedient."

"David appears to have had a peculiarly tender remembrance of the singing of the pilgrims, and assuredly it is the most delightful part of worship and that which comes nearest to the adoration of heaven. What a degradation to supplant the intelligent song of the whole congregation by the theatrical prettiness of a quartet, the refined niceties of a choir, or the blowing off of wind from inanimate bellows and pipes! We might as well pray by machinery as praise by it."
The Treasury of David, Psalm 42

"Ver. 2. Praise the Lord with harp. Men need all the help they can get to stir them up to praise. This is the lesson to be gathered from the use of musical instruments under the old dispensation. Israel was at school, and used childish things to help her to learn; but in these days, when Jesus gives us spiritual manhood, we can make melody without strings and pipes. We who do not believe these things to be expedient in worship, lest they should mar its simplicity, do not affirm them to be unlawful, and if any George Herbert or Martin Luther can worship God better by the aid of well tunes instruments, who shall gainsay their right? We do not need them, they would hinder than help our praise, but if others are otherwise minded, are they not living in gospel liberty? Sing unto him. This is the sweetest and best of music. No instrument like the human voice. As a help to singing the instrument is alone to be tolerated, for keys and strings do not praise the Lord. With the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. The Lord must have a full octave, for all notes are his, and all music belongs to him. Where several pieces of music are mentioned, we are taught to praise God with all the powers which we possess."
Treasury of David, Psalm 33

 

Salvation brings to us the joy, tears, feelings of love and well being, not the other way around!

 

Sounds to me that he was stating that this would be a matter of personal convictions!

 

I have run into some "problems" with fellow reformed Presbyterians, whose doctrine of worship would be that we can only be allowed to do what the scriptures plainly state to us able to do, while as a baptist, see us as being free to do whatever is not outright condemned in scriptures!

 

Maybe, kinda, sorta. When it is a church act involved, it must be at least at the level of the church's convictions, not the individual's.

This is not just a Presby-Baptist issue. At least some of us Baptists look for what God enjoins rather than what God prohibits (i.e., positive command & example, rather than doing anything we can't find a "thou shalt not" for.)

 

So there are Baptists who in worship would take a more Reformed view?

 

A qualified "yes," depending on what you mean by a Reformed view. Explain what you mean by a Reformed view of worship.

 

Account of the Fisk Jubilee Singers ministering with Spurgeon:

books.google.com/books?id=GEAMAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA60

"Mr. Spurgeon had signified, in his hearty way, his interest in their mission, and had tendered them the use of his large church. The Sunday previous to the concert they attended service there, and at the close tarried to shake hands with the great preacher. While waiting their turn in the room adjoining that where Mr. Spurgeon receives his visitors, some of the people present asked for a song. The Singers, with tender and earnest feeling, sang, 'O brothers, don't stay away.' They had scarcely finished when Mr. Spurgeon summoned them into his room. He had heard the song, and was so affected by it that he wanted them to attend the evening service and repeat it there. 'I do not know whether you will approve or not,' he said to his people in commencing the service, 'but it seems to me it is the right thing, and I will take the risk. After the morning service I heard the Jubilee Singers sing a piece, "O brothers, don't stay away, for my Lord says there's room enough in the heavens for you." I found tears coming in my eyes; and looking at my deacons I found theirs very moist too. That song suggested my text and my sermon to-night. Now as a part of the sermon, I am going to ask them to sing it, for they preach in the singing; and may the Spirit of God send home this word to some to-night—some who may remember their singing if they forget my preaching.' Then followed the singing, so clear and strong as to reach every person in the great audience of five or six thousand people, and Mr. Spurgeon preached with great effect from the text, 'It is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.' "

 

In his sermon "Beware of Unbelief," Spurgeon cautioned against the dogmatism on this subject some have expressed here.

"we need to escape from these horrid ruts, and wretched conventionalisms, which are rather hindrances than helps. Some very stereotyped brethren judge it to be a crime for an evangelist to sing the gospel; and as to that American organ,—dreadful! One of these days another set of conservative souls will hardly endure a service without such things"

 

LOL. I didn't say it was morally wrong. Neither did I say Spurgeon said that. And you can do your own homework.

Along with some historical facts, I said was there is no imperative to use them, and commandments in the Psalms to play instruments are the same as the commandments to bring sacrifice and burnt offering. They are types and shadows.

That's what I said.

 

knucklehead . . . if it hasn't entered into the heart, it can't be imagined.

 

So, I want to be sure I get this right. It's not wrong, but your're against it. Is that correct? And you have no quotes from Spurgeon to say instruments in church are wrong, correct? (And how would bolstering your position with quotes from Spurgeon be doing my own homework? )

And you have said nothing to prove that Catholics brought instruments into the church. Century if not year? Priest or pope who did this? It's not a fact if you can't prove it.

No, you said nothing about types and shadows. You are now adding that in to the discussion. My impression of your view was quite different from "types and shadows."

As for there being no imperative to use them, there are grammatical imperatives to praise the Lord with instruments all through the Psalms--which are not part of the law.

 

I'm wondering - and I must admit that I haven't read every post in this thread -

Why would the following entities (some of which are considered to be emotions) be flawed (for lack of a better word)?

Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance.

Music along with accompanying instrumentation have enhanced these qualities in my heart during our local church worship/fellowship.

 

Exactly and that could be said of any part of the "worship service".

John 4
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

My point: Music with instrumentation enhances my worship.

Don't want to put this "coat" on anyone else, throw it away if that's what suits you ... Just sayin' - in response.