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Free Will compatible with Sovereignty

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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Many wrestle believing free will is incompatible with Divine Sovereignty. But I think the Westminster Confession, and the London Baptist confession solved this paradox nearly 400 years ago. From the LBC consider:

CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE

Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4

1 Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18

2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5

3 Acts 4:27,28; John 19:11

4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

Here is the same (WCF) in modern English provided by the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

1. God, from all eternity, did—by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will—freely and unchangeably ordain whatever comes to pass. Yet he ordered all things in such a way that he is not the author of sin, nor does he force his creatures to act against their wills; neither is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

The way I understand this is, we freely choose what we want but our choices always follow the reasons (secondary causes) under God’s control that we base our choices on.

Any thoughts or rebuttals appreciated.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
Many wrestle believing free will is incompatible with Divine Sovereignty. But I think the Westminster Confession, and the London Baptist confession solved this paradox nearly 400 years ago. From the LBC consider:

CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE

Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4

1 Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18

2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5

3 Acts 4:27,28; John 19:11

4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

Here is the same (WCF) in modern English provided by the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

1. God, from all eternity, did—by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will—freely and unchangeably ordain whatever comes to pass. Yet he ordered all things in such a way that he is not the author of sin, nor does he force his creatures to act against their wills; neither is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

The way I understand this is, we freely choose what we want but our choices always follow the reasons (secondary causes) under God’s control that we base our choices on.

Any thoughts or rebuttals appreciated.
Click to expand...
Only God has true free will, as He alone cannot be moved or acted upon by External forces outside/inside Himself!
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
"Free will" is a denial of the bible teaching that the will of lost man is bound to the law of sin and death.

As God's will is not bound to the law of sin and death, God's will is free.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
TCassidy said:
"Free will" is a denial of the bible teaching that the will of lost man is bound to the law of sin and death.

As God's will is not bound to the law of sin and death, God's will is free.
Click to expand...
I agree, but in the LBC and Westminster, the will reacts to secondary causes. And a sinful nature is one of them.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
I agree, but in the LBC and Westminster, the will reacts to secondary causes. And a sinful nature is one of them.
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That is why none of us really have free and full will, as we can and are effected by external/internal forces!
 
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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
That is why none of us really have free and full will, as we can and are effected
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What the Westminster and the LBC say, is that we freely choose according to secondary causes God controls. And wicked human nature is a secondary cause that sinners delight in freely yielding to. This way they are not automatons, but genuinely incur guilt for their choices.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
What the Westminster and the LBC say, is that we freely choose according to secondary causes God controls. And wicked human nature is a secondary cause that sinners delight in freely yielding to. This way they are not automatons, but genuinely incur guilt for their choices.
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Still means that we do not have libertine free will...
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
TCassidy said:
"Free will" is a denial of the bible teaching that the will of lost man is bound to the law of sin and death.

As God's will is not bound to the law of sin and death, God's will is free.
Click to expand...

If man was truly bound strictly to the lost nature, completely depraved then he would never be able to to a thing but live according to all that is against God. Yet we see lost people who give to the poor, have compassion on those in need, and serve others. That alone refutes your claim.
 
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