Featured Does 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 teach the sign gifts have ceased?

I believe 'mature' is the best translation of Teleios in 1 Corinthians 13:10, as it is in 1 Corinthians 14:20 and Hebrews 5:14. Therefore to teleion would be rendered 'maturity.' In the infancy of Israel, in the desert, the Israelites had manna, and quail, the shoes did not wear out and their feet did not swell. When the entered Canaan, the manna ceased, and I presume that the other things did as well. So it was with the infant Church. Before the NT was written and distributed widely throughout the churches, certain people were given revelations to bring the word of God to the congregation. In 1 Cor. 14:29, the NIV says, 'Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully [what is said]' The words in brackets are in no ancient text. The prophets decided among themselves which two or three words should be brought to the congregation that week and which should be given later. It was the whole congregation that was to weigh carefully whether it was a genuine prophecy (1 Thessalonians 5:20-21).

I disagree. Numbers 12:6. 'When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions; I speak to him in dreams. But this is not so of My servant Moses: he is faithful in all My house. With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles.......' The Lord Jesus is the prophet like Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15). The OT presented Christ and the way of salvation in types and figures; in the NT, we have the full revelation.
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• Being fully known will only be true after Messiah comes. Isaiah foresaw this time of Messiah's reign and the gathering of the nations (what we refer to as "the rapture") when, "the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:9)"

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We have the full revelation of God before us right now and the Holy Spirit to help us understand it.

I wrote an article on this subject some years ago. https://marprelate.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/cessationism-have-the-sign-gifts-ceased/

 

I think the significant factor here is what tongues is being grouped with in verse 8. For example, "prophesy" is found repeatedly in chapter 14 as a revelatory gift. Tongues is a revelatory gift. Hence, the direct association with these two revelatory gifts with "knowledge" would indicate it also is to be interpreted within the same category. There was virtually no written revelation for church policy, new covenant administration or teaching at the writing of first corinthians.

The second obvious contextual factor is that love is being contrasted to these revelatory gifts with regard to longevity (v. 8a).

Verse 8 indicates with regard to longevity, tongues ceases prior to the other two revelatory gifts.

Verses 9-10 take up the point of longevity with regard to prophecy and knowledge which has the temporal value of being PARTIAL with regard to revelation. Their longevity is terminated by the coming of "that" which is perfect.

The proper understanding of "perfect" must be defined by immediate context. For example, these revelatory gifts are "IN PART" while "that" is not "in part" but is "perfect." Second, the immediate metaphor (v. 10) has to do with MATURITY rather than the second coming or a new world. Hence, there is a time for immature things and a time they must be put away which comes with maturity. Third, the second metaphor has to do with a contrast between means of revelation. There is no question that a mirror is an indirect means of revelation whereas "face to face" is a direct means of revelation. This language was used to describe the revelation provided to Moses that differed from that which was given to common prophets. Common prophets were provide revelation through indirect means (dreams, visions, etc.) where God spoke "face to face" with Moses by direct revelation.

Also there time terms of "now" versus "then" in context may refer to the apostolic period as the time of indirect revelatory gifts consummated by the completion of a more individual direct revelation - the completed inspired Word of God. During this "in part" period of time the average Christian had to depend upon revelation from God through indirect means, those among them with these gifts, whereas, "WHEN that which is perfect is come" no individual would have to depend on any other individual for revelation from God but would have it directly from God in written form for him/herself (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

The words "to know even as I am known" conveys the idea of direct revelation in contrast to indirect means. This has to be interpreted in context with the metaphors of maturity and mirror and is just another way to say the same thing in a different way.

Moreover, "now" in the apostolic period where there is no completed or mature direct personal revelation from God in written form, and they are dependent upon others, immature, in part revelatory gifts, yet "now" they have guiding principles (love, faith, hope) but primarily the "better way" of love to guide them in the proper use of these spiritual gifts.

 

As has already been said, I believe that 1 Corinthians 13:13 clears the matter right up; "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity (love)." Verse 8 has "prophecies, tongues, and knowledge" they fail, cease, vanish away and now we have faith, hope and love. Pretty simple to me, but some try to support their view rather than dig into Scripture to see what it says.

 

what revelatory knowledge would God have to give to us not found in the Bible then?

 

The charismatic movement has produced legions of improper interpretations that cause one to examine their proof texts more closely in light of their errors. Older commentators were not faced with that particular error. Sometimes it is the error that forces the commentator to examine a text more closely. However, you quote very few commentators which is far from being exhaustive of those commentators that could be quoted.

 

Uh no not even close. Good grief.

"Now I know in part; then I shall know fully"

Right now I know only in part, later at another time (then) I shall fully know. When is then? Then (later at another time) is when "that which is perfect shall come". We are no where described in scripture as being in the "then".

 

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1 Cor 13:12

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

Relative to knowledge, do those two verses have the same meaning? Is the chronology of to two also the same?

 

Paul says, "for we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when what is perfect [Or "when completion"] comes, the partial will be set aside." 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 (NET)

"And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love." 1 Corinthians 13:13 (NET)

Paul contrasts tongues, interpretation of tongues, and knowledge with love, faith and hope. If as some say, prophecy, tongues and interpretation remain until the end of the world, Paul's comparison is meaningless.

 

Heb 5:9
1 Cor 13:10/12 and then
Rom 8:29
1 John 3:2/8

The commentators, JK, posted are closer to the truth. IMHO.

 

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Phil 3:10-12

Does the aorist of Heb 5:9 and 1 Cor 13:10 say and or imply that we will attain the perfection of the resurrected Christ? Romans 8:29?

I know, no Greek.

 

The writer of Hebrews places the gifts of the Spirit into the past tense. Which I believe helps determine Paul's use of "perfect" in 1 Corinthians.

“while God confirmed their witness with signs and wonders and various miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.” (Hebrews 2:4) (NET)

 

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Heb 11:40

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 1 Cor 13:10

When yet may be coming the perfect,

What perfect?

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Could anyone be perfected before that took place?

then that which is in part shall be done away.
but then face to face:
when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.