1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Birth Before Belief

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Jun 25, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So, tell us....if God gifts us with faith, why does he then count that faith as righteousness? I mean, if he gave it to us, certainly he doesn't need to keep a tally of what it's supposed to do for us...
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Because it is not the law God gave and is specifically speaking of in Romans.

    My question for you is why is God's grace (the gospel) not sufficient to save? Why do you call faith a gift that is only given to a few when God said that faith comes from hearing the gospel and is open to everyone?
     
    #42 Revmitchell, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you turn from meeting conditions you think saved you (self-righteousness) and look beyond yourself and trust in Christ's righteousness instead of your own, God will consider your faith as righteousness. But if you continue having faith in your faith, as being your grounds of acceptance with God, you do not have biblical faith. You have intellectual assent.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Then I am good I do not believe I have any self righteousness that saved me. Are you going to answer my question?

    Why is God's grace (the gospel) not sufficient to save? Why do you call faith a gift that is only given to a few when God said that faith comes from hearing the gospel and is open to everyone?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The gospel is not open to everyone. All of the nations and most of Israel perished never hearing it. And twice in Acts the Holy Ghost forbade preaching to Asia for a time. The Gospel is not a system of works for the self-righteous, it announces to all who believe in Christ, they have eternal life. Eternal life has no beginning or end. They were always saved in the mind of God.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Apart from the new birth, people reject the gospel, just as the Pharisees did.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Please show me this in scripture.
     
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you regard the audience, Peter speaks to believers.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    “Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Why is God's grace (the gospel) not sufficient to save?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The context here is not the lost man vs. the saved man, it is Godly wisdom vs. worldly wisdom. The context is determined by the use of "wisdom" in verse 6 and 13. Regenerated man is not spoken of here.
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But is says the things of God (gospel etc.) are spiritually discerned. Consider Peter: “He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!” (Matthew 16:15–17)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,080
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you for proving my point.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The question is it God's intent to save all sinners though?
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You have it backwards, the gospel is what gives the spiritual discernment for it is the power of God to salvation. The grace, the power, the provision for understanding, the provision for faith is found in the gospel. You find the gospel (God's word) insufficient for salvation. Based on scripture I find God's word sufficient for salvation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why is God's grace (the gospel) not sufficient to save?
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God has to first regenerate the sinner, then the Gospel can make sense to them!
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is, but not intended by God to save all!
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is not what scripture says. Scripture says that scripture is sufficient to give faith. Romans 1:16
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...