There is none who seeks for God

[Van]

Romans 3:11 makes this statement and some read this as saying "there is none who seeks for God at any time." However the intended contextual message might be "there is none who seeks for God all the time, or when they are going against God by sinning."

Contextually, since Paul is saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3"23) our third choice is most likely the inspired message.

 

[Rob_BW]

I checked a number of English translations and the Greek, didn't see any mention of time.

 

[37818]

Romans 3:11 shows the deprivaty of mankind without God's intervention.

 

[Van]

Hi 37818, I think Paul's inspired point is we are all sinners in need of a Savior. Therefore we can seek God through faith in the Truth.

 

[HankD]

Romans 3:11 makes this statement and some read this as saying "there is none who seeks for God at any time." However the intended contextual message might be "there is none who seeks for God all the time, or when they are going against God by sinning."

Contextually, since Paul is saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3"23) our third choice is most likely the inspired message.

Reading on down through verse 18 shows what man is - a sinner in rebellion from God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

This is our nature apart from the work of the Holy Spirit.

The common grace gift to mankind is his conscience which is the tool of the Holy Ghost to reprove/convict of sin.
Else no one would know the need of a savior.

John 16
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I believe this enlightenment (conviction of sin) is given to every human being.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Those who believe are saved.

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

 

[Deacon]

The immediate context compares the Jews (which Paul identifies with, “are we better”) and the gentiles.

Romans 3:9 (NASB95)
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;​

The verses that follow are quoted from Psalm 14 (and later from Isaiah 59) and are used to support the statement in verse 9.

3:10 as it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,

There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;

There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
​

Rob

 

[Dave G]

The common grace gift to mankind is his conscience which is the tool of the Holy Ghost to reprove/convict of sin.
Else no one would know the need of a savior.

Is that the same conscience towards God that gets suppressed and becomes "past feeling" in unbelievers ( Ephesians 4:17-19 ) because of the blindness of their hearts, whereas it is heightened and the enlightened in believers ( Ephesians 4:20-24 ) because they are no longer blind in their hearts?

 

[HankD]

Is that the same conscience towards God that gets suppressed and becomes "past feeling" in unbelievers ( Ephesians 4:17-19 ) because of the blindness of their hearts, whereas it is heightened and the enlightened in believers ( Ephesians 4:20-24 ) because they are no longer blind in their hearts?

Maybe.

 

[Iconoclast]

I checked a number of English translations and the Greek, didn't see any mention of time.

As far as time goes, Van adds to the scripture at any Time.
He creates his own not quite what the scripture says version.

 

[Van]

Hi HankD, in your post #5, you seem to be agreeing that fallen persons do at times seek God. If so, I agree. I take issue with the idea that only through "indwelling" can people become aware they are sinners. The Holy Spirit has inspired both the Old and New Testaments, and the Law makes us aware we are sinners. Note Romans 9:16 where salvation does not depend on the one who wills. Clearly the one who wills is seeking God. Then look at Matthew 23:13 and the fallen who were in the process of entering the kingdom, again clearly seeking God.

 

[Van]

Hi Deacon, yes I agree with your post #6, we are all under sin which of course would lead us to seek God through faith in Christ.

 

[HankD]

Hi HankD, in your post #5, you seem to be agreeing that fallen persons do at times seek God. If so, I agree. I take issue with the idea that only through "indwelling" can people become aware they are sinners. The Holy Spirit has inspired both the Old and New Testaments, and the Law makes us aware we are sinners. Note Romans 9:16 where salvation does not depend on the one who wills. Clearly the one who wills is seeking God. Then look at Matthew 23:13 and the fallen who were in the process of entering the kingdom, again clearly seeking God.

Yes, all are convicted of sin, this is "the beginning of wisdom" to those who are able and willing to accept it.

I believe that certain church sectors has failed miserably trying to figure out who and how the "elected" are/have been chosen wasting precious time rather than throwing them the life line and rejoicing for the harvest which is about IMO to end shortly and abruptly.

 

[JonShaff]

I bring this up for discussion sake...

Acts of the Apostles 17:26-27
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us

And Jesus' parables
1. The Pearl of Great Price
2. The Treasure Hidden in a Field

I'm in agreement that the Lost man is not seeking (with any real knowledge or understanding) the True God of the Cosmos, but these aforementioned Scriptures seem to indicate mankind searches to some degree. What say ye?

 

[InTheLight]

I bring this up for discussion sake...

Acts of the Apostles 17:26-27
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us

And Jesus' parables
1. The Pearl of Great Price
2. The Treasure Hidden in a Field

I'm in agreement that the Lost man is not seeking (with any real knowledge or understanding) the True God of the Cosmos, but these aforementioned Scriptures seem to indicate mankind searches to some degree. What say ye?

I say that millions of spiritually dead corpses will fill churches this Sunday seeking God, yea, even God's son Jesus. It's a fact of life.

Calvinists cling to the single verse in Romans 3:11 (which is a paraphrase of Psalms 14:2-3) to proof text their views whereas there are dozens of other verses where people seek God, examples of people that sought God (the Magi, Zaccheus, the Centurion, etc.)

 

[HankD]

Again, these "no one seeks God" passages are proclaiming man left to his own devices.

However, man indeed CAN seek God via the wonderful gift to mankind of the Holy Spirit to convict and draw man to Jesus Christ.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

We may ask - How can the "the dead" respond to the Living God?

I don't know and really don't care (not being mean) but we can and some do respond.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

About 55 years ago I was dead in my trespasses and sins but I heard His voice calling me unto Himself and responded through no inherent quality of my own and He brought me forth out of the place of the dead, forgave me and gave me eternal life..

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[JonShaff]

I say that millions of spiritually dead corpses will fill churches this Sunday seeking God, yea, even God's son Jesus. It's a fact of life.

Calvinists cling to the single verse in Romans 3:11 (which is a paraphrase of Psalms 14:2-3) to proof text their views whereas there are dozens of other verses where people seek God, examples of people that sought God (the Magi, Zaccheus, the Centurion, etc.)

Your post makes me think of this idea...Is it bad to say that God is so awesome and wonderful that even evil, rebellious people are drawn to some degree to His beauty? Paul speaks of the "Unknown God" (Acts of the Apostles 17) not as though they were trying to 'appease all gods just in case', but that they were drawn to the reality of a God out there that seemed to be superior to 'all other gods'.

 

[HankD]

Your post makes me think of this idea...Is it bad to say that God is so awesome and wonderful that even evil, rebellious people are drawn to some degree to His beauty? Paul speaks of the "Unknown God" (Acts of the Apostles 17) not as though they were trying to 'appease all gods just in case', but that they were drawn to the reality of a God out there that seemed to be superior to 'all other gods'.

Yes Jon, unregenerate man does praise God, does pray, does write wonderful and magnificent words about the God of the universe.

That is undeniable.

My contention (and many others) is that we have the Holy Spirit sent to this world (the place of "the dead") by Jesus Christ to assist in the Great Commission harvest and we as the dead have a limited view of the True and Living God via the revelation of The Spirit of our sin and a dread of His judgement.

This limited view of God does not save but The Spirit prepares the heart of individual souls for the gospel.

Also there is a source of fallen man's creativity called "the flesh" (sarx).
Out of which may come wonderful words in prose and poetry concerning God and His works.

However as well meaning as they may appear, they are devoid of the Spirit.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Rob_BW]

I bring this up for discussion sake...

Acts of the Apostles 17:26-27
26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us

And Jesus' parables
1. The Pearl of Great Price
2. The Treasure Hidden in a Field

I'm in agreement that the Lost man is not seeking (with any real knowledge or understanding) the True God of the Cosmos, but these aforementioned Scriptures seem to indicate mankind searches to some degree. What say ye?

Tozer always reminds of Ecclesiastes 3:11.

 

[JonShaff]

Yes Jon, unregenerate man does praise God, does pray, does write wonderful and magnificent words about the God of the universe.

That is undeniable.

My contention (and many others) is that we have the Holy Spirit sent to this world (the place of "the dead") by Jesus Christ to assist in the Great Commission harvest and we as the dead have a limited view of the True and Living God via the revelation of The Spirit of our sin and a dread of His judgement.

This limited view of God does not save but The Spirit prepares the heart of individual souls for the gospel.

Also there is a source of fallen man's creativity called "the flesh" (sarx).
Out of which may come wonderful words in prose and poetry concerning God and His works.

However as well meaning as they may appear, they are devoid of the Spirit.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I understand, and in no sense am i trying to undervalue the Work of the Holy Spirit--as we are dead in our spirit when we are apart from Christ. I just wonder if some systems of theology paint a caricature of the fallen condition without identifying other Biblical principles. Yes, we are rebellious, enemies of God. But we also are made in His image, so does that bring a sense of longing to right what is wrong? Obviously, we cannot right anything. Christ does it all.

 

[HankD]

I understand, and in no sense am i trying to undervalue the Work of the Holy Spirit--as we are dead in our spirit when we are apart from Christ. I just wonder if some systems of theology paint a caricature of the fallen condition without identifying other Biblical principles. Yes, we are rebellious, enemies of God. But we also are made in His image, so does that bring a sense of longing to right what is wrong? Obviously, we cannot right anything. Christ does it all.

Yes, another great and marvelous truth - we are made in His image and likeness - not even said of angels.

Reminds me of this scripture:

Psalm 8
3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!