How did you discover the Bible teaches a pre-trib rapture?

Not a problem. I'm happy to answer.

Our textbook is Dispensationalism, by Charles Ryrie, the standard one at most dispensationalist schools. There are essentially four versions of the theology nowadays, as delineated by Ryrie: traditional (Scofield), revised (Ryrie), progressive (Bock and Blaising at Dallas TS, more of a compromise with covenant theology), and ultra (Bullinger, O'Hair, Stam).

Scofield was much closer in his explanations and his dispensations to Isaac Watts than to Darby. You can read about this in an article available on the Internet, "WAS ISAAC WATTS A PROTO-DISPENSATIONALIST?"
by Scott Aniol, from the Detroit Baptist TS Journal. I don't have time to look this up for you, sorry; have to teach in a few minutes.

Ryrie updates Scofield in some important places, notably in the definition of a dispensation. Scofield includes time in his definition, but Ryrie (following the Greek word oikonomia) does not. It is a stewardship, not an era, in revised dispensationalism.

Have to run!

 

The Greek word there for "appear" is hophtheomai, which is a passive of horao, and means "to be seen." So Heb. 9:28 is speaking of a physical appearance of Jesus Christ.

 

Yes, of course.

 

We'll agree to disagree.

 

Okay. Thanks for being so obtuse.

This does not affect the pretrib position at all.

 

Well, first of all, these two references don't prove your point in the slightest, so it is misleading for you to post them.

But to answer your question, it's quite simple. In the Rapture, Christ comes in the air, and we are caught up to meet him there (1 Thess. 4:17). It's not a "coming" to the earth. If I come to the sidewalk in front of your house and holler out, "Come out here," and you do, did I visit you at home? Nope.

 

Actually, there are 4 main forms of it taught and held!
Classic view, best evidenced in Scofield bible
Majority view one on Ryrie and MacArthur study Bibles
Progressive as held by some at Dts
Hyper Dispy those who would tend to see only books of Paul as inspired to us for today

 

Depends if one views those elect as being of the Church, or of saved Jews!

 

Thank you, Brother. I try to keep up with the different views, but I hadn't realized there were so many.

 

Saved Jews and saved Gentiles make up the church.

 

His appearing in the clouds is not to be seen by all. We call it the secret rapture, after all.

It is the Rapture, not the 2nd Coming in Power and Glory.

And your point is?

Yes, of course the dead in Christ are raised first. And in the same event, the Rapture, we living saints will join them in the air. It's all one event. And it happens in the air, not on earth.

In the 2nd Coming in power and glory, Christ will come down to earth itself (not the air) onto the Mt. of Olives, split it in two, conquer the Antichrist and his evil hordes "with the brightness of His coming," and rule the world on David's throne.

 

Coming in the air, or "coming to the air " is a classic Brethen teaching . Neo Brethren still continue this teaching for which there is absolutely no scriptural teaching.

 

Oh, sorry. Coming in the clouds. There, everything okay? Oh, but wait, I think the clouds are up there in the air, aren't they....

(Oh, and the neo-Brethren thing? Lose it. This is a Baptist place. I mean really. )

 

So, what do you make of this one, which specifically says that Christ will come in the clouds, and we will meet Him in the air?

1 Thess. 4:17--"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Every other time that this Greek word (aer) is used in the NT, it refers to the physical air. There is never, ever a time when "air" is "spiritual" in the Bible. It always means pretty much what we mean by it.

Here are some lexicons on the word:

Friberg: "(1) as the space immediately above the earth air, atmosphere (1C 14.9); (2) as a substance air; equivalent to nothing in 1C 9.26; (3) as the space between heaven and earth inhabited by spirit-beings sky, air (EP 2.2)."

Louw-Nida, "air."

Abbot-Smith, "the lower air that surrounds the earth."

BADG, "air."

Liddel-Scott, "the lower air." This is the classical Greek lexicon, and I also checked Homer's "Odyssey" and yes, it uses "air" just like we do, except that in classical Greek there was also an "upper air," aither.