Featured Spiritual Death

When we read the narrative in Genesis 1-3, we learn very little about the relationship between God and Man. We read of man breaking relationship with God and placing shame and guilt upon themselves. God imposes consequences as a result of their disobedience. Death enters into creation by sin.

I believe Adam is the natural man many speak of in 1 Corinthians 2, hence why he sinned. He did respond to God. He first denied his guilt and blamed God for giving him Eve. But he did respond in faith to the promised seed by naming her Eve...mother of all living. How did he even know his seed would continue? Because he believed God's promise of having a child who would crush the serpent.

How good was Adam and Eve's relationship before the transgression? Well if you remember correctly, God told Adam to be fruitful and multiply. They didn't even consummate their union until after they sinned (Gen. 4). So, they sinned before they even had marrital relations. Doesn't anyone else find that interesting?

Notice in Genesis 3 God comes and brings judgement in the cool of the day. Why do we think that it was commonplace for Adam and Eve to be meeting with Him? It's only inferred if you believe this was something always occuring. We find one instance of them meeting with God like this and it was to bring judgment.

I'm only stating what's there. Nothing more nothing less.

 

Jon, It stems from a reasonable deduction of Ephesians 2:1 and Colossians 2:13. It is not that complicated. Paul uses the word nekros (νεκρος) to describe the spiritual state of the individual prior to their conversion. He cannot be using it to describe their physical condition, for they were very much alive physically. This is not fiction, nor is it a story. It is also not mythology in any sense of the word. Using your method of reasoning the Trinity can be called Chrisitan mythology. The term is not found in scripture. Neither is the hypostatic union. The term used is less important than the biblical truth conveyed.

 

I'm pretty sure he blocked me, but he brings up much about what you're talking about @JonC .

No where did you deny that we are spiritually dead. No one is Spiritually alive until Christ makes them alive.

 

First death-physical
Second death-lake of fire

 

That is the spiritual death I mean. Are you referring to spiritual death in the eternal state?

 

@JonC

This means I do not have to make up a theory for Christ dying spiritually to pay for my sins.

 

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

You know, I hear many people break down Romans 5, but very few try to explain this passage.

 

Matthew Henry wrote, "A state of sin is a state of spiritual death. Those who are in sin are dead in sin. As the death of the body consists in its separation from the soul, so the death of the soul consists in its separation from God and the divine favour. As the death of the body is the corruption and putrefaction of it, so sin is the corruption or depravation of the soul. As a man who is dead is unable to help himself by any power of his own, so an habitual sinner is morally impotent: though he has a natural power, or the power of a reasonable creature, he has not a spiritual power, till he has the divine life or a renewed nature." Henry's word are in keeping with the reality conveyed in Ephesians 2:1 and Colossians 2:13. The reprobate is in a state of spiritual death. While alive physically, he is dead spiritually. Hopefully, this fact is not in dispute. What do we make of the person who dies in their sins? Are they in a state of spiritual death?

Revelation 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

What is the second death? It is not like the first death which is the cessation of physical life. The second death is a state of being. It is to be absent from the grace and mercy of God for eternity. It is thanatos instead of nekros. The former is death itself. This is more than just the process of dying until the heart stops beating and the brain stops functioning. Thanatos is being eternally in a place where there is no possibility of repentance or forgiveness. It is an eternal reminder that an individual is outside of Christ. Thanatos is nekros ongoing. Mark 9:48 describes eternity outside of Christ as a place where "their worm does not die". This means that the natural decomposition of the dead body of the unbeliever may occur physically, but not spiritually.

 

Jon,

I am not trying to be argumentative. I am of the opinion that sometimes we trivialize the momentous and complicate the obvious when it comes to theology. We also have a tendency to seek a disputation over issues that do not need it. How many times do we need to stain a gnat?

 

I like what is said here. I'm with @JonC... It's not that these narratives that we create are evil per se, but they prevent the Child of God from receiving what Revelation God wants to reveal because they were steeped in a tradition's narrative about a doctrinal position.

In other words, sometimes we don't seek God in a truth because we think we have it all figured out already because someone told us so

 

Not sure what the point of this thread is but here goes:

When we (humankind) are conceived, we are conceived in sin. Thus in a separated from God state. This is what is being "spiritually dead," When we were not "in Christ" not "together with Christ" we were spiritually dead. When we were transferred from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Son, we were made (spiritually) alive together with Christ

Now the mythology enters when being "spiritually dead" is said to result in total inability to respond to God's revelation and attraction via the gospel with Christ high and lifted up. OTOH, being spiritually dead means we can do nothing to save ourselves or merit our salvation, we are saved by grace through faith, not saved by grace and our saving faith. That distortion is more mythology. It is God alone who credits our faith (worthless as a filthy rag) as righteousness.

 

Sometimes people over think things Reformed. I suspect something like that might be taking place here.
When the historic belief of the churches as expressed in confessions of faith, Catechisms, and creeds,virtually all agree here and someone reads something contrary they might be better off to really consider how the whole of believing churches let this "new idea" slip past themselves, and let only a handful of people come up with it.

 

How about :
first death Spiritual...with physical death following
1cor15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

2nd death remaining eternally in the realm of death in the lake of fire

 

You are suggesting that Adam was a Spiritually dead natural man before sin entered which is not an orthodox position. The only myth here would be your false suggestion.

You give no reasonable belief or understanding of how spiritual death enters.
Many a heresy starts with a misunderstanding of the fall, and it's consequences.