Preterists Cannot Prove Their Assertions !

Great give us a play by play of the scroll and the bowl judgments and what events they symbolized?

 

A number of things are symbolic of judgment, clouds are not one of them.

 

My point is that prophecies are filled with symbolism. Jesus was just following suit, so to speak.

 

Symbolisms represent something literal.

 

My short answer is that the seals, trumpets, and bowl judgements seem very similar. It's possible that they describe the same events, but with increasing intensity as time goes by. Overall, I believe this describes the Jewish War and destruction of Jerusalem. Unfortunately, it don't have the time to give that a thorough answer today. It could make a great topic for a future discussion, though. What do you think?

 

I think if you cannot do as I have asked you have problems defending your position.

 

I didn't say that I couldn't do it. I thought you wanted a detailed answer, which will take me a little more time than I have today. Maybe tomorrow during my lunch break.

 

I look forward to it

 

Are you sure of that? Clouds most certainly are symbolic. All one has to do is go through occurrences of the word, esp. in the OT.

 

In Rev. 6 Jesus is opening the scrolls & shows John the victorious one - himself, who will continue to conquer until the end of time. Compare with the horsemen & chariots of Zechariah & you will see these are angelic agents mobilising for the destruction of Jerusalem as Ezekiel described in Eze. 14.

21 ‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: how much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments – sword and famine and wild beasts and plague – to kill its men and their animals! 22 Yet there will be some survivors – sons and daughters who will be brought out of it. They will come to you, and when you see their conduct and their actions, you will be consoled regarding the disaster I have brought on Jerusalem – every disaster I have brought on it. 23 You will be consoled when you see their conduct and their actions, for you will know that I have done nothing in it without cause, declares the Sovereign Lord.’​

Those brought out are the 144,000, a perfect number of Israelites delivered up to the time of the escape from the doomed city.

The trumpets are final warnings before the destruction, & the bowls are the destruction.

 

It is interesting that even the Reformers were confessedly baffled by Revelation. Martin Luther really pulled out treasures from Romans, but when it came to the last book he wrote,:

"About this book of the Revelation of John, I leave everyone free to hold his own ideas, and would bind no man to my opinion or judgment; I say what I feel. I miss more than one thing in this book, and this makes me hold it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic. First and foremost, the Apostles do not deal with visions, but prophesy in clear, plain words, as do Peter and Paul, and Christ in the Gospel. For it befits the apostolic office to speak of Christ and His deeds without figures and visions; but there is no prophet in the Old Testament, to say nothing of the New, who deals so out and out with visions and figures. And so I think of it almost as I do of the Fourth Book of Esdras, and can nohow detect that the Holy Spirit produced it."

Source:
Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Luther on Revelation: "I feel an aversion to it, and to me this is sufficient reason for rejecting it."

I believe something similar is at work with many modern Christians. They have a mental cataract that refuses to acknowledge spiritual language of this book. They don't disown the book, as Luther did, but they turn it into the most confusing and frustrating book in the Bible. All because they cannot see that the thrust of the prophecies in Revelation are mostly limited geographically and temporally.

 

Yes, there was a Beast - Nero. Mark of the Beast wasn't a literal mark like a tatoo. The "great tribulation" was what they were going through. We do agree that there was no visible physical return of Jesus, but there was a "judgmental" return, where He used the Roman army to execute His judgment.

I don't remember questioning whether Jerusalem would ever be rebuilt. However, the Bible does not predict a 3rd Temple.

I'd never heard of Alcazar, but you can bet your boots I will check him (or her) out. Thanks for the "tip" . Talk about hooey - what about Harold Camping and his false prophecies? Or Hal Lindsey? Or Tim LaHaye? Those guys were way out in some fantasyland.

 

Funny, I keep hoping you "dispy" guys will wake up and smell the coffee. I've told you several times that the "Beast" was Nero, and that Apostate Israel was the False Prophet. You keep looking for a literal interpretation of events that were meant to be interpreted symbolically.

 

All Scripture is 100% true, but not all interpretations are accurate. I've explained before that while the New Covenant was instituted at the Last Supper, the Old Covenant system wasn't completely ended until the destruction of the Temple. Your interpretation is wrong basically because you don't understand how to properly understand prophecy.

 

You will need to remind me of what specific events you are talking about.