All have sinned when Adam sinned - Rom. 5:12-19

You have a system you are trying to defend. Put the system aside and practice exegetical based exposition. This text does not say that Adam's sin "affected" the world. It says by one man's sin many were "MADE sinners." This text does not say Adam's sin "affected" the world, it says by one man's sin many were "condemned." This text does not say Adam's sin "affected" the world, it says by one man's sin "many be dead."

His argument is simple. The period between between Adam and Moses everyone died as the last words in every geneology is "and he died." Hence, death cannot be ascribed to violating the Mosaci law by adults and it can't be ascribed to violating the law of conscience by infants. Only one law existed in this time period that could justify universal death - the law found in Genesis 2:17 broken by "one man" and it is this singular sin that made "many sinners" many "condemned" many "be dead".

The whole undivided human nature existed and acted as one man in Adam and that is why death can be justly "passed" down to all partakers of that human nature through procreation.

That is why "death" can occur in the womb prior to any willful action by the infant. That infant was "in Adam" when Adam sinned, just as Levi was in the loins of Abraham when Abraham paid tithe to Melchisedek.

Your system of soteriology is based on pure eisegesis not exegesis.

 

Your kicking a dead horse! This was the Son of God "walking" in the Garden thus making a visible appearance as he has done throughout the Old Testament in many places. He appeared in a physical manifestation to Abraham along with two angels in human appearance. It is called a "theophany." Your view is explicitly repudiated by Scripture in the clearest possible language (Rom.5:12 and Genesis 2:13). Give it up!

 

If that phrase were alone without other plainly stated contextual descriptives you might have possible grounds for your objection. However, it is not found alone but it is in connection with previous statements that repeat "by one man's disobedience" not only were many man constituted sinners but "condemned" and and "be dead". All of these must be considered together because they are inseparably related to each other and justified by "one man's disobedience" rather than any personal disobediences on their part.

There is no justification for individual "condemnation" or "be dead" if not for the fact they were "made sinners" due to one man's sin. You cannot separate these from each other and your problem is AT BIRTH all of these are present as you very well know infants are subject to death IN THE WOMB before being able to commit any individualized sin(s). Your view makes a mockery out of Paul's repeated sole grounds for all these things which is "by one man's disobedience" rather than anything found in his descendants.

There is no justification for "condemnation...be dead....made sinners" other than the very same thing Paul repeats over and over "by one man's disobedience" thus repudiating any causes or grounds of justification found in these individuals or in whatever sins they might do after birth.

It is not a PERSON that is being described but "death." Second, it is not found in the future tense thus referring to future sins men might do, but it is aorist tense which agrees in tense with "sinned" as an already completed action.

First, sin is the transgression of the law - not merely Mosaic law as John 3:6 does not say "Mosaic law" or "the law of Moses." There is also the law of conscience (Rom. 2:15) but neither of these laws can explain UNIVERSAL death between Adam and Moses as infants do not violate the law of conscience when they suffer death in the womb and adults do not violate the Mosaic law as it did not exist in this period. However, there is one law that did exist and does explain UNIVERSAL death during this period and that is the law of Genesis 2:17. Paul said "in Adam all die" and that is due to being in UNION with the Adamic human nature and that whole of human nature existed and acted in an undivided state "in Adam" when Adam sinned.

Moreover, Paul does not use the future tense in romans 5:12 as in "SHALL enter" or "SHALL pass upon" or "all men SHALL sin" but he uses the same Aorist tense used behind "sinned" showing simeltaneous completed action with all these verbs. At the completed point of sin, death entered at that point in time and at that same point in time death "passed" upon men because at that same point in time when Adam sinned "all have sinned" and he reasserts this over and over in verses 15-19 by repeatedly saying "by one man's disobedience many "be dead....condemned....made sinners" thus repudiating completely any exposition that would claim Adam's sin merely "affected" all men actually constituted them as justly "condemned" justly "be dead" spiritually and justly "made sinners" by that one action by one man.

Here are two men representing two different groups of people. All human beings were created "in Adam" but not all human beings are created "in Christ" but all who are supernaturally created in Christ" receive him. All mankind is NATURALLY born "in Adam" but not all mankind is NATURALLY born "in Christ." Being "in Christ is by SUPERNATURAL birth (Eph. 2:10). This is the meaning of John 1:10-13 where universal rejection by Jews and by Gentiles is asserted in John 1:9-11 thus NOBODY RECEIVED HIM. Those who do receive him is due to supernatural birth not by the will of man - Jn. 1:12-13. Verse 12 asserts the human response while verse 13 provides the divine cause for that response because naturally no man receives him (vv. 8-11).

Don't you believe that human beings are sinners by nature when born? If not, then explain why they are subject to "death" which is the "condemnation" for violating law (Gen. 2:17; Rom. 5:12).

 

Don't you distinguish between the persons of the Godhead? No man has seen the Father or the Holy Spirit but men have seen God the Son. Not merely by incarnation but by pre-incarnate manifestations as did Gideon and Abraham and Daniel as Daniel explicitly states that the fourth man in the furnance that he SAW with his own eyes was the Son of Man - God the Son.

Doesn't it even bother you a little bit that your interpretation is flatly repudiated by these texts in the clearest possible language (rom. 5:12; Gen. 2:17) and yet you keep on kicking this dead horse trying to get it to live????

 

Yes, sin is manifested of being spiritually dead but all mankind are by nature (material and immaterial human nature) "in Adam" and that is why "all in Adam die" because death is inseparable from being "in Adam." The physical and spiritual aspects of human nature cannot be separated from Adam and the absolute proof is infants are subject to death in the womb and the only justifiable basis for being subject to death which is the condemnation of the law is that they are born sinners by nature - meaning their immaterial nature is born "dead in tresspasses and sins" even though their physical bodies are alive and they manifest that sinful nature as soon as they are capable of expression.

You miss the point. They are "condemned already" and Paul tells you explicitly why they are "condemned already" due to "one man's disobedience" NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR INDIVIDUAL SINS as these are but manifestations of "being evil" by nature from birth. They do not sin to become sinner but they are already "made sinners" by nature, already "condemned" and already "dead" BY ONE MAN'S DISOBEDIENCE.

THEY ARE BORN IN UNBELIEF BECAUSE "BEING EVIL" BY NATURE.

Your view is simply false and based completely and entirely upon misuse of scripture.

 

The natural flow and natural explanation of Romans 5:12-19 is that condemnation upon the whole human race occurred at one point in time (Gen. 2:17) by the actions of one man (Rom. 5:12,17-19) and that is why Death can precede any individual actions by Adam's posterity to merit death. Meriting death was due to one man's act of disobedience.

All interpretative theories that deny this must repudiate Paul's repeated statement that "condemnation....be dead....made sinners" of many are not due to their own individual acts of sin but due soley to "one man's disobedience." They must repudiate Paul's words because their view demands that every man is judged solely by his own actions, is condemned by his own actions and "be dead" due to his own actions and are "made sinners" due to his own actions which Paul repudiates but claims their sins are but consquences (including unbelief) are consequences of being "condemned already" "dead" already "made sinners" already due to one man's sin.

Romans 5:12 makes this assertion by using the same aorist tense for all verbs (entered...passed....sinned") showing inseparable simeltaneous action demanding the undivided human nature was condemned, dead and made sin at that point in time and therefore all mankind who are but products of that fallen nature are born sinners by nature, born spiritually dead, born condemned and thus justly subject to death from conception apart from any sinful deeds of their own.

Romans 5:13-14 proves this is true by eliminating all laws but Genesis 2:17 that can explain universal death.

Romans 5:15-19 proves this by clearly and explicitly and repeatedly saying that this condemnation, deadness, sinfulness of many has its cause in one man's disobedience and not their own sins plural.

Case closed!