The Cure for Calvinism

[JonC]

I do not drift into philosophy.

You may not have realized it, but that is exactly where you went when you "agreed in part" with the verse I presented. You simply do not have the right to a predjudiced opinion about the beliefs of another Christian.

We can argue and discuss our views for a better understanding of each other, but if either argues the other does not truly hold their belief then that person is a liar by default (by character). That is why we need to be careful how we deal with Christians we may disagree with.

 

[JonC]

The problem I see first hand is the young Calvinists who are in Seminary. Many come back to their home churches with the goal or cramming Calvinism down everyone's throat. The last thing 99% of people want to do at church is debate Calvinism. The new breed of Calvinists seem to be on a crusade to conquer the SBC for Calvin. It does not annoy me that they believe what they believe,it annoys me that they don't know when to shut up about it. I respect Calvinism much more than I respect "traditionalism", but I do not respect the division and disunity the new breed of Calvinists are causing. My best friend is an older hyper Calvinist, he continually comments about how bad the "new breed" annoy him.

My experience is some of the "old breed" Calvinists realize they may not be entirely correct. That is why so many appreciated Spurgeon. He readily acknowledged the human condition that affects us all. Their entire faith is not defined by their soteriology. John Piper is one of my favorite authors.

My experience is the new ones are sometimes like cult members indoctrinated in a belief system. They believe it is their mission to defend Calvinism. I believe many of these are Calvinists because as a system it demands less of them than does Christ.

 

[Reynolds]

My experience is some of the "old breed" Calvinists realize they may not be entirely correct. That is why so many appreciated Spurgeon. He readily acknowledged the human condition that affects us all. Their entire faith is not defined by their soteriology. John Piper is one of my favorite authors.

My experience is the new ones are sometimes like cult members indoctrinated in a belief system. They believe it is their mission to defend Calvinism. I believe many of these are Calvinists because as a system it demands less of them than does Christ.

I can definitely agree with that. A few weeks ago, one of the pastors in a large church one county over gave his congregation the riot act about Calvinism. The funny thing about it is I am pretty sure he is a Calvinist. He told the congregation in the AM service "If you talk about Calvin, election, or predestination more than you talk about Jesus; this is not the Church for you. Please go somewhere else."

 

[Ran the Man]

Yes, Hemmingway. By all means. Make the man who blew his brains out your life coach.

At least he killed himself and 58 other people.

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC,

You may not have realized it, but that is exactly where you went when you "agreed in part" with the verse I presented[/QUOTE].

Not at all. Once again you did not understand what I thought, you did not understand my meaning, but as you are like to do, you assumed what I thought and ran with YOUR UNDERSTANDING, THEN PRONOUNCED IT ON ME..LET me demonstrate;

Here it is again;

JonC,
When it comes to other Christian views, what I am saying is we are not to judge someone else's servant. Servents stand fall to their own master. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

Icon said
I agree in part....what you consider other Christian views is between you and the Lord. I do not trust your judgment.

I DO NOT BELIEVE EVERY PROFESSED CHRISTIAN IS A CHRISTIAN....

Such open rebellion shows they are not yet believers. We are to make this judgment jn 7:24

 

[Ran the Man]

You are right he doesn't know what he is talking about. I think he's Catholic. At least he seems to favor the Greek orthodox.
MB

I have said from my introduction post that I am a Baptist. I have studied a lot of denominations, but I am a Baptist. That is the denomination I was raised in and am now fighting for.

 

[Ran the Man]

Hello MB,
My concern is to try and be accurate primarily.
I feel responsible for the person I interact with that they understand the teaching.
If they believe or do not believe is between them and God.
I do try and remove obstacles as best I can.
This person is eager to oppose what he does not know at all.

Who can understand it? Calvinism is so complex, there's your proof it's of man.

 

[Reynolds]

I have said from my introduction post that I am a Baptist. I have studied a lot of denominations, but I am a Baptist. That is the denomination I was raised in and am now fighting for.

I am a member of and attend a SBC Church. Was raised SBC. I am a Christian. My goal is to spread the gospel. I will fight over primary doctrinal issues, but I choose to not fight over secondary and tertiary doctrinal issues.

 

[Ran the Man]

I am a member of and attend a SBC Church. Was raised SBC. I am a Christian. My goal is to spread the gospel. I will fight over primary doctrinal issues, but I choose to not fight over secondary and tertiary doctrinal issues.

The Calvinists are taking over our denomination. They won't be so merciful when it comes time to witch hunt and pick out so called secondary points with you.

 

[Reynolds]

The Calvinists are taking over our denomination. They won't be so merciful when it comes time to witch hunt and pick out so called secondary points with you.

I quit caring about "our denomination" when they decided to go on an extended apology tour for our past and started this social gospel nonsense. For the most part, the Cals oppose both. Honestly, the Cals taking over would probably be an improvement. I like the older, mature Calvinists such as John MacArthur. It's these young annoying ones that are a burr in my saddle.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Jon mine sounds more like this... Ommmmhhh... ... Brother Glen

I’ve got a Fitbit watch that teaches you to control breathing

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Calvinists are taking over our denomination. They won't be so merciful when it comes time to witch hunt and pick out so called secondary points with you.

Wow... Baptist are a denomination!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh OK.... so now we are talking about Southern Baptists specifically. I don’t think Mac is a SBC member but I could be wrong.

This Ran The Man guy is classified Calvinists as an enemy to Baptists.... particularly SBC churches. Got news for you pal, Calvinists have been there from the start. So suck it up butter cup, maybe even have meaningful dialog with some of them, you might learn something.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My experience is some of the "old breed" Calvinists realize they may not be entirely correct. That is why so many appreciated Spurgeon. He readily acknowledged the human condition that affects us all. Their entire faith is not defined by their soteriology. John Piper is one of my favorite authors.

My experience is the new ones are sometimes like cult members indoctrinated in a belief system. They believe it is their mission to defend Calvinism. I believe many of these are Calvinists because as a system it demands less of them than does Christ.

That’s pretty arrogant of you Jon! So you are saying Calvinists are not Christians, but rather cults ?!? Really?

So how would you categorize Dr Moeller?

 

[Ran the Man]

I quit caring about "our denomination" when they decided to go on an extended apology tour for our past and started this social gospel nonsense. For the most part, the Cals oppose both. Honestly, the Cals taking over would probably be an improvement. I like the older, mature Calvinists such as John MacArthur. It's these young annoying ones that are a burr in my saddle.

John MacArthur makes 500,000US a year and dresses like a CEO. I could care less what he has to say about spirituality.

 

[Ran the Man]

Oh OK.... so now we are talking about Southern Baptists specifically. I don’t think Mac is a SBC member but I could be wrong.

This Ran The Man guy is classified Calvinists as an enemy to Baptists.... particularly SBC churches. Got news for you pal, Calvinists have been there from the start. So suck it up butter cup, maybe even have meaningful dialog with some of them, you might learn something.

Buttercup? No that would be your wife, I think.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

John MacArthur makes 500,000US a year and dresses like a CEO. I could care less what he has to say about spirituality.

Prove it

 

[Ran the Man]

Prove it

Its well known. You disprove it.

 

[Ran the Man]

John F. MacArthur Net Worth

 

[JonC]

That’s pretty arrogant of you Jon! So you are saying Calvinists are not Christians, but rather cults ?!? Really?

So how would you categorize Dr Moeller?

Not at all. I am saying some Calvinists hold their Calvinism as cultists cling to their false doctrines.

When I was a Calvinist I was also a Christian. My Christianity did not change when my theological understanding changed.

But for some, all they seem to have is Calvinism. If they are wrong about their soteriology they are empty handed.

The difference is where people stand (whether Calvinism, Arminianism, or any other such theological view). Are they leaning on their understanding or are they standing "in Christ".

It is sad but "on that day" many are going to be surprised to hear the words "I never knew you". It is not knowing about Christ or holding a paticular soteriological view that matters. It is knowing Christ and Christ knowing us.