All have sinned when Adam sinned - Rom. 5:12-19

The Biblicist said

The natural flow and natural explanation of Romans 5:12-19 is that condemnation upon the whole human race occurred at one point in time (Gen. 2:17) by the actions of one man (Rom. 5:12,17-19) and that is why Death can precede any individual actions by Adam's posterity to merit death. Meriting death was due to one man's act of disobedience.

I agree with that and will go so far as to say that for the purpose of God It had to be introduced by the very first man, otherwise the obedience of one would have been Adam and there would have been no need for the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

If I was not a man when judged and condemned, what was I? We know i was a sinner

 

Good questions. Jesus tells us that the devil was a murderer from the begining (John 8:44) and we understand he murdered Adam and Eve with his lie (Genesis 3:4). We are told that the Devil had the power of death (Hebrews 2:14). Jesus taught that Hell, which we know is the second death was made for the Devil and the Devil's followers (Matthew 25:41). In 1 John 3:8 I do not see this to tell use when the Devil acquired the power of death. We know the Devil and death will be destoryed (Revelation 20:10; Revelation 20:14).

 

He had power as an Archangel but misused it . His power comes from God and can only act with God's permission. He only continues to exist due to God's mercy

 

None of this proves total depravity which is claimed disables men from seeking God. keeps him from hearing and seeing the truth. I know man is a sinful creature I admit this However this does not prevent men from being saved.
MB

 

Never was an Archangar. There has been no other Archangar than Michael.

 

I think you are correct. We do know Lucifer had a position of authority " and was a " anoited cherub". His names suggest "light bearer"

 

You were condemned as a sinner before the womb because you are not judged as a man, per Jesus

You seen to be comparing physical death to spiritual death. The lost are already spiritually dead.

You seen to be thinking the ability to save oneself as the desire to be saved. We are helpless in ourselves, as the verses point out but can realize our need.

 

I apologize, I shouldn't replied at all.

 

It was, but I was out of turn

 

This world since Adam's sin has never been perfect nor never will be or will we be.
But Jesus came and died and rose so that we would not be separated from Him in eternity.
When He comes back or when we leave this world for eternity, we will no longer be ourselves subjected to sin and live in heaven and eternity with Christ.
But other than that, we are only on this world temporary. And sadly with sin. Oh what a beautiful day that will be when we go to heaven or when Jesus comes back.

 

To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal 4:5

How far back does the need for redemption go? Redeem? Redeemed from what, Death?

What law was transgressed, sin, that resulted in Death and the need to be redeemed from Death?

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:3

For what (thou shalt not eat of it) could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh.

Was Adam of the flesh? Did the law, the strength of sin, subject Adam to futility?

To futility, not willingly. in hope. Hope of being redeemed, which had been foreordained, before the foundation of the world? Before Adam was created?

Does redeem mean to buy back?

 

I believe the genetic idea. Adam's Sun was volitional and against his own nature since his nature was from God directly. But his offspring has a sin nature. We do this naturally. So I believe that perhaps, the fruit was a kind of poison for us. It brought some kind of altered consciousness that opened their mind, but it also altered their genes and this sin nature was passed on.
All in Adam have sin because it's passed thru the biological father, but not thru the mother. This is why God performed the Incarnation. It was the only way to make a human who was without sin because he has no genetic sin trait passed down from a human father.

 

You have learned our teachings well, but we have been wrong about when we became sinners.

If God gave judgment to Jesus and Jesus says He doesn't judge man, and I am condemned (and judged) already, How can I be condemned, as a man, through any act of Adam, I can't Jesus says so. Furthermore, It Jesus says we can sin in our heart without our body, (adultery) then sin does not continue though the physical but spiritual.

So your position that sin entered the world is correct, But it is the physical world not the spiritual, Satan a spiritual being was here, yet he not physical , Man is the only physical and spiritual being. Adam was a sinner, condemned already, before he was human. When he sinned, the physical world was cursed.

The verses show the comparison of Christ death affect the world as Adam actions affect the world, but his sin could not make us sinners because we already were condemned sinners, needing repentance

 

The logical conclusion to calvinist theology is when babies and children die before they can understand the gospel they go to hell.

A very evil doctrine