Calvinism and Deathbed Conversions

This really is a ceaseless debate about a process we cannot see or have any control over. We present the Gospel. We ask God to show mercy.

God Holy Spirit is in control. When Holy Spirit indwells the person, they have received the promise of God they are transformed from death to life and have salvation from the wrath/judgment of God.

I'm not convinced from scripture there is only one salvation "formula". There are "elements" involved. God takes the initiative, the Gospel is presented, Holy Spirit convicts and draws and guides into truth and transforms the person into the new man who responds in faith.... praise God for His mercy.

It is a mistake to attempt present a formula that must be followed.

 

but you agree that of the sinner has a choice and if rejects the Holy Spirit conviction , they are not saved?

 

Of course we have a choice. I have only known "hyper-calvinists" argue no choice is made by the person. The question of "freewill" in that choice is the essence of the debate.

When you advocate for freewill, do you mean that every person that chooses has a "will" that free from any outside influence?

 

I somertimes wonder if you ever read the scriptures.

• Epesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
• 2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
• 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
• 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
• 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
• 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
• 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
• 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
• 9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
• 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
• 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
• 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
• 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
• 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
• 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
• 16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
• 17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
• 18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
• 19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
• 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
• 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. (4)
He predestined us to be adopted by his good will (5)
By his grace he made us acceepted in the beloved. (6)
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins (7)
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: (9)
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (11) His will not ours.
We trusted after we heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that we believed, we were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, (13)

• John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
• 
  
• 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

• 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

• John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
• 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

No man can come to Jesus unless the Father draw him and then gives them to the Son.

That was no more popular when Jesus proclaimed it, than it is today. (66)

Note: It is only those who the Father draws, that Jesus will raise on the last day.

 

The Father draws all men and does not wish that any should perish, yet many do. So you must be allocating the verses incorrectly.

Rev 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, andwill sup with him, and he with me.

God won't force the door open

David Kent , Ephesians is written the those already saved

 

The desire to choose, anything including Salvation, is free will. We have the a a choice to make with or without outside influence. The Holy Spirit encourages us to be saved. A choice remains to be made , a response is required.

Luk 7:32

They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

 

Your killing me man

If only I could hear you say it in your British accent...that would make the sarcasm come across so much better.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

You hyperize Gods sovereignty. Yes no man comes into Christ unless the Father draws him, but he draws everybody.
Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men into me.
All means all.

 

Ok, but is a person able to make the choice for Christ without the influence of God Holy Spirit?

I believe they cannot.

 

Why is it we are unable to respond? We freely choose sin, we can freely choose to follow Christ.
Freewill is what sets humans apart from all other species on this planet.

 

So do you believe a person can come to salvation without the influence of God?

 

What verse says that the Father draws all men meaning every person (without taking it out of context)?

See what I wrote above to @loDebar reference please.

Apparently, you are not paying attention to what we have said. We are unable to respond because we do not have the ability to do so in our totally depraved state.

 

Right , He draws all men, he does not force a choice

 

Try John 6 44

 

Yes, John 6:44 which supports the Calvinist position. No man comes unless the Father draws him. What I asked you was for a verse, in context, that shows the Father draws all men to Himself as you claimed.

 

I Timothy 2:3-4 • God desires all people to be saved.

Hallelujah!

 

Again context. All types of people. Not every person. If you go with every single person you make other parts of the Bible (Romans 9) false. So either the Bible is wrong, or your interpretation is wrong.

 

Reproof from Charles Spurgeon:

I Tim. 2:4

"What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than that which it fairly bears? I trow not. You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. "All men," say they, —"that is, some men": as if the Holy Ghost could not have said "some men" if he had meant some men. "All men," say they; "that is, some of all sorts of men": as if the Lord could not have said "all sorts of men" if he had meant that. The Holy Ghost by the apostle has written "all men," and unquestionably he means all men. I know how to get rid of the force of the "alls" according to that critical method which some time ago was very current, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth. I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it. I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, "Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth."Had such been the inspired language every remark of the learned doctor would have been exactly in keeping, but as it happens to say, "Who will have all men to be saved," his observations are more than a little out of place. My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God. I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself, for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture. God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, "God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."" —"Salvation By Knowing the Truth"

 

Then I disagree with Spurgeon.

 

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