How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.

Oh boy. So the jailer became a believer because Paul and Silas were singing hymns?

How long are you going to deny the plain reading of scripture in Acts 16:32-34?

32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

 

Why don't you examine the plain reading of scripture in Acts 16:32-34?

It's obviously describing the jailer and his household believed after Paul and Silas shared the gospel with them. This was after the earthquake. The jailer was not a believer until after he asked how to be saved, and after Paul preached the gospel to him and his household. To deny otherwise is to deny scripture.

 

Just.
Stop.
It.

Read Acts 16:32-34. That tells when and how the jailer became a believer. Any suggestion that he believed before he asked "What must I do to be saved" is pure fabrication and a tortured attempt to make theology fit scripture.

 

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” John 3:16 (NASB95)[/QUOTE]
Notice the verse you quoted. You may just be on the edge of accepting real truth. No where in the passage about the Jailer is there anything to indicate that He was already saved. But rather the opposite. He didn't know all He had to do was believe.

No sir no one ask for directions after they are all ready there and your twisted understanding has been refuted and you can't admit it.
MB

 

We aren't talking about jumping on anything. We are talking about a man who is questioning Paul about how to be saved. Not only this man was saved but also his family.
MB

 

Mark,
I'd like to take one more stab at this, if only to establish where I think you may be having difficulty in understanding where salvation comes from, and how it is a gift, biblically.
For the record, I didn't learn this from Augustine, John Calvin, or anyone else...I learned it from reading the Bible.

The question addressed in other threads was, essentially, "Since when is the accepting of a gift, part of the gift giving?", or, to quote you directly here: Where Does Faith Come From II, in post# 34, "Since when does the reception of the gift also considered part of the giving." (?)

I believe that I've answered this quite thoroughly, even though you do not agree with my definition of a gift.
To me, ( not you you, it seems ), there's a big difference between passively receiving a gift, and actively "receiving" a gift.

The difference is, one person is caught completely by surprise and receives it with joy...because they didn't know they had it coming. <---- Passive. Notice the word, "receive"...."Receive Him" ( John 1:11-12 )
The other sees a person next to them, or heard about that gift being received, and then says to themselves, "I want some of that! How do I get it?" <---- Active. Notice the word, "get", as in "gain"...."get saved".


An analogy of this would be:

On my birthday, my Dad gives me a shiny new bicycle...in the days leading up to my birthday, he hides it so well, that I never knew he had it for me. On the set day, he presents it to me completely "out of the blue", and it's the bike I've always wanted.
What can be said about this?

1) I had no idea he was going to give it to me.
2) When he gave it to me, it was already mine... whether or not I wanted it.
From here on out, if I don't like it, it's irrelevant...it's mine to do with as I please.
I'm stuck with it, because Dad is not going to take it back to the store...but since I like it, there's no way I'd ever take it back or let him take it back to the store.

This is true gift-giving, and this is biblical salvation.
I could give example after example of this "out of the blue" type of thing happening throughout Scripture, with regard to God's favor...and I believe that I already have.
God's favor is bestowed upon someone without their realizing it ( Romans 10:20 ).


Contrast the above with this analogy:

On my birthday, my Dad buys me a shiny new bicycle, stores it away and then on the set day, pulls it out, sets it up in the front yard, and proceeds to tell me that if I can walk up, get on the bicycle and ride it, it's mine.
What just happened?

1) My Dad just put a condition on taking possession of the bicycle, in front of me. He then credits we with ownership, IF I do what he demands that I do.
2) If I failed to meet his conditions, no matter how much I wanted the bicycle, it would never be mine.

This is ( apparently ) your idea of how gift giving works, and is not biblical salvation.
I could give example after example after example of how this is works, because it begins with the premise that, what is being given, is being "offered", with strings attached.
To me, you see the "string" as being faith...or belief.


Something a man has to do, in order to "receive" the "gift".

 

The problem I see with this:

Both the reception of the gift, and the gift itself, have now been re-defined according to the rules of not only modern business, but gift-giving in general.
In a business transaction, something is said to be "free" when it comes with absolutely no strings attached.
But it is not "free" when there is any kind of string attached.

For example,
"Buy One, Get One Free" is not free...there's still a condition attached.

Everyone I know would agree to this principle, when it comes to business transactions.
But carry this over to biblical salvation, and many people would do an immediate, "about-face" and disagree, because that is not how they see salvation working.

Why is this?

I cannot say...but it's not consistent.
With me, it carries over directly... because I see this happening throughout God's word;
God actively giving, and man passively receiving ( except with respect to the Law of Moses ).

The idea that a man or woman can hear about salvation, and then "ask the Lord to save them", is not biblical, Mr. Mitchell.
You are fully within your right to disagree with this, and you have, many times.

But we know from Scripture that God does not hear the prayer of the unrighteous ( Psalms 66:18, Proverbs 15:29, Proverbs 28:9, John 9:31 ).
He will not honor the prayer of a rebellious, wicked man.
In other words, God does not hear the prayers of someone who is at enmity with Him...someone who does not "really mean it".

Carrying this over to salvation:
He does not reward a person who asks for salvation...He only "rewards" a person that He has, in His mercy, decided to have compassion on ( Romans 9:14-18 )
That a person actually asks for the Lord to save them, is testament to one of two things...

Either they ask out of an already contrite "heart" that was put there by God ( regeneration first ),
Or they ask out of a rebellious,unregenerate heart, thinking that their "asking" is what will "start the ball rolling".
God's word and it's preaching do not always result in someone believing....and it's because God's Spirit is not working in the ones who do not believe.
If He was, they would "attend to it" and believe ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ).


Bringing this all back around and answering according to the OP:

The will is either in bondage to the fallen nature, or it is "given a leg up" when the Gospel is preached, leaving man to contribute the deciding "vote".
This is where we differ from, 180 degrees out.

To the "Calvinist", God decides the election beforehand...it's "rigged", in that He does the voting, and we don't get a say...He pardons, and we either go to our deaths, or are forgiven and "re-instated".
To the "Semi-Pelagian" / "non-Calvinist" / "Traditionalist"/ "Arminian"/"Molinist"/"Fullerite", man gets a "vote", and he casts his ballot either for, or against Jesus Christ.

Boiling it all down:

It's either "synergism" or "monergism".
God operating, or man "cooperating"...there is no "in-between".

How you see your approach as not being "synergistic", I'll never understand...to me, it's obvious.


Best wishes to you, sir.

 

When we hear the gospel we either accept it or reject it. Being convinced of a matter is not necessarily a choosing. To act on that which you become convinced of is a choice. As a boy of 14 I was convinced of Christ but it took the miracle of conviction by the Holy Spirit to get me to accept Christ as my Savior. I rebelled against what I was convinced of from a very early age until I was 14. I surrendered to Christ willingly. I surrendered my will to do His will.
MB

 

#4

 

That's kind of how I see it, Dave.

If we must choose to believe, then there's another condition...not a necessary evidence.

 

No where in scripture does it ever say that God saves a man so that he can believe. That is imaginary on your part. Christ only enters the heart of those who believe.
MB

 

That statement right there is obnoxious and arrogant.

Gifts are never receiver passively.

You still have to receive it regardless of what your dad will or will not do with it. Otherwise it sits in the corner and never gets touched. Receiving of a gift is not an attached string.