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How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 1689Dave, Jul 16, 2019.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    God hears the prayer of all,. He dos not hear the prayer in the wrong attitude. He hears the repentant sinner.prayers but not the selfish unrepentant
    Psa 34:15

    The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry.
    Psa 34:16

    The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.

    you do not realize who we are nor why we are here
     
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    So, you admit they FREELY chose to sin ? Good! Now, you're getting somewhere !

    As I said, it woulda been easy for God to have made man incapable of sinning, but it's plain that man's free will is GOD'S will. God did NOT make Eve eat the forbidden fruit. NO ONE made her do it but herself. She chose to believe Sneaky Snake of her own free will.
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No, Eve was, among humans. Satan had sinned much-earlier.
     
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Adam wanted to sin or he would not have. Just as you or I would do in his situation not being born again.
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It's more about law keeping. Law needs free will, the gospel does not unless you present it as law. If you do, you corrupt it.
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It shows he was saved having the fruits of the Spirit. It also shows he was born again by his response to Peter. If it quacks and walks like a Duck, it probably is a duck....
     
  7. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    The Law cannot save, Keeping the Law was to sustain Israel as a nation in order for tr Messiah to come. Free will exists without Salvation or the Law. Any choice to sin is free will
     
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  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Great philosophy but philosophy is not scripture
     
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Jesus says "you'll know them by their fruits". Cornelius did born again works long before he heard Peter preach.
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Then he didn't need peter or the gospel
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The gospel saves us from many physical ills. He sent his word and healed them.
     
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No no he was already saved he has no need for the gospel. Peter wasted his time.
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Try having your life saved by a pacemaker and then refuse to read or hear the directions.
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Now you are either missing the point or ignoring it to redirect. Scripture says one cannot be saved without the gospel. You are saying Cornelius was already saved prior to hearing the gospel. So who is wrong you or scripture?
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    How are infants, OT saints in Hebrews 11 and others saved if it isn't the New Birth also making the gospel believable?
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Infants are not discussed in scripture except David's child. OT saints were saved same as we are. Believing in the Messiah.
     
  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Every instance of a person being saved at a particular moment is false, having been never in danger from the foundation. Also they are not born-again, they are just perfectly born once. You can't be saved unless there was a real danger.

    This also render unconditional election false. Its fully conditional on being created for damnation or not.

    Satan wins Job's Challenge. The only reason Job is loyal to God is because God forced him to be.
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The Messiah was only a vague hint in the garden. But it took the new birth to discern the spiritual truth in the symbols of Eden.
     
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  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So you still sticking to that cornelius didnt need the gospel to be saved?
     
  20. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Psalms 34:15 tells me that His eyes are upon the righteous, not the unrighteous.
    No one is righteous outside the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
    No one is declared righteous except by the blood of God's Son.

    Psalms 34:16 tells me that the face of the Lord is against them that do evil ( please see John 3:19-20 ).

    So, from God's perspective, the "wicked" are anyone He has not justified by the blood of His Son.
    The "righteous" are those He has made righteous ( 2 Corinthians 5:29 ), while the "wicked" are all those He has not.
    Believers are "the righteous", while unbelievers are "the wicked".

    He does not hear the prayers of the wicked.
    Attitude comes from the heart.
    Repentance can only exist in a believer, not an unbeliever, and godly sorrow that works repentance can only exist in someone whose nature is no longer rebellious towards the Lord.
    One must be born again in order for that change in attitude to take place.

    Sure I do.
    Believers are here for many reason, one of which is to occupy until He comes again ( Luke 19:13 ).
    We are the "salt" of the earth ( Matthew 15:13 ), which God looks at and instead of destroying, He withholds judgment on it for our sake ( Matthew 24:22, 2 Peter 3:8-10 ).
     
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