Featured "seven church ages" false doctrine...

Agreed, here are the verses:

[Symbol] Revelation 1:16 - "And he had in his right hand seven stars: ..."

[Interpretation of Symbol] Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Thus "stars" in "his right hand" = "the angels of the seven churches" (identified specifically in Revelation 1:11, 2:1-3:22). Each church, has "an angel" that the book of Revelation is being written to (and is thus to mank-kind, not unto those of the unfallen worlds), see Revelation 2:1,8,12, 18, 3:1,7,14, wherein it specifically says, "... unto the angel of the church of the ... write ..."

This 'constellation' of 7 stars in "His right hand', belong unto Him, and are held by Him. Thus a 'fallen star' (in brief, evidence upon request) is a fallen church leader.

Let us now learn from the "natural" to the "spiritual" as per 1 Corinthians 15:44-46, and since these are in "his right hand", let us focus upon the good only, and leave out the bad and fallen (stars) for the moment, which may be given as needful.

According to Genesis 1, “stars” naturally, are Heavenly bodies, that particularly shine at night [Nehemiah 4:21; Job 3:9], that are to give light upon the earth, see Genesis 1:14-18; Job 9:7-9, 22:12, 25:5; Psalms 8:3, 136:9, 147:4, 148:3; Ecclesiastes 12:2; Isaiah 13:10; Jeremiah 31:35,36; Ezekiel 32:7,8; Daniel 12:3; Joel 2:10, 3:15; Amos 5:8; Obadiah 1:4; Nahum 3:16; Matthew 24:29; Mark 13:25; Luke 21:25; Acts 27:20; 1 Corinthians 15:40,41; Revelation 6:13.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Genesis 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Compare also: Psalms 136:9, Jeremiah 31:35 KJB and see that “the stars also”, means that they are to “rule the night” also along with the “lesser light”, being the “moon”.

Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Nehemiah 4:21 So we laboured in the work: and half of them held the spears from the rising of the morning till the stars appeared.

Job 3:9 Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:

Job 9:7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.

Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

Job 9:9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

Job 22:12 Is not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the stars, how high they are!

Job 25:5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.

Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?

Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

Psalms 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

Psalms 136:9 The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Psalms 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

Psalms 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.

Ecclesiastes 12:2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:

Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

Jeremiah 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Ezekiel 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

Ezekiel 32:8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Amos 5:8 Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:

Obadiah 1:4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.

Nahum 3:16 Thou hast multiplied thy merchants above the stars of heaven: the cankerworm spoileth, and flieth away.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Acts 27:20 And when neither sun nor stars in many days appeared, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope that we should be saved was then taken away.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1 Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

 

continuing:

Stars, in the positive and goodly sense, are symbolically the children, even faithful children of Abraham, even those who profess Jesus Christ, see Genesis 15:5, 22:17, 26:4, 37:9; Exodus 32:13; Deuteronomy 1:10, 10:22, 28:62; Judges 5:20; 1 Chronicles 27:23; Nehemiah 9:23; Psalms 148:3; Isaiah 60:1-4; Daniel 12:3; Hebrews 11:12; Revelation 8:12, 12:1:

Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

Genesis 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Exodus 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

Deuteronomy 1:10 The LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.

Deuteronomy 10:22 Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons; and now the LORD thy God hath made thee as the stars of heaven for multitude.

Deuteronomy 28:62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God.

Judges 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.

1 Chronicles 27:23 But David took not the number of them from twenty years old and under: because the LORD had said he would increase Israel like to the stars of the heavens.

Nehemiah 9:23 Their children also multipliedst thou as the stars of heaven, and broughtest them into the land, concerning which thou hadst promised to their fathers, that they should go in to possess it.

Psalms 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Isaiah 60:4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Hebrews 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

And as such, they are also the “angels [messengers] of the churches”, in Revelation 1:16,20, 2:1, 3:1:

Revelation 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Several times in the NT, and also the OT, mankind is associated with the word "angel" as an messenger for God unto His own people:

1 Samuel 29:9 And Achish answered and said to David, I know that thou art good in my sight, as an angel of God: notwithstanding the princes of the Philistines have said, He shall not go up with us to the battle.

2 Samuel 14:17 Then thine handmaid said, The word of my lord the king shall now be comfortable: for as an angel of God, so is my lord the king to discern good and bad: therefore the LORD thy God will be with thee.

2 Samuel 19:27 And he hath slandered thy servant unto my lord the king; but my lord the king is as an angel of God: do therefore what is good in thine eyes.

Acts 6:15 And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.

Galatians 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

See also Malachi 3:1, in that Malachi is an 'angel', 'John the Baptist' is an 'angel', and 'Jesus Christ' Himself also identified as 'angel'.

In Revelation 14:6-12, there are other 'angels' that give the 'everlasting gospel'. These are person of man-kind disseminating in the world that great commission.

Notice that, satan even sends false 'angels' or 'ministers' of the churches:

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

Others didn't think so:

I cite again:

Again, John Gill (a Baptist), in 1774 (way before Darby):

"... the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches;
that is, the seven stars which John saw in Christ's right hand, represent the angels, or pastors of the seven churches of Asia, and in them all the pastors and ministers of the churches in all the periods of time until Christ's second coming. ..."

"... and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches;
represent the seven churches, of Asia, and in them all the churches of Christ, in successive ages, to the end of time; the reasons why these are signified by "candlesticks", (See Gill on Revelation 1:12); and that they are prophetic of the churches of Christ in the several periods of time, until he comes again, will appear from the following considerations: ..." - Revelation 1:20 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

Also:

"... it will seem that these seven Churches, besides their literal respect, were intended (and it may be chiefly) to be as patterns and types of the several ages of the Catholic Church from the beginning thereof unto the end of the world; that so these seven Churches should prophetically sample unto us a sevenfold temper and constitution of the whole Church according to the several ages thereof, answering the pattern of the Churches named here;” compare p. 905. Vitringa (Anacrisis Apocalypsios, p. 32) ...." - Epistles to the Seven Churches in Asia. - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Also:

"... A number of expositors down through history have held that the seven churches represent seven sequential stages of church history.1

1 “They affirm that we have in them, besides counsels to the Churches named in each, a prophetic outline of seven successive periods of the Church’s history; dividing, as they do, into these seven portions the whole time intervening between Christ’s Ascension and his return in glory.”—Richard Chenevix Trench, Commentary on the Epistles to the Seven Churches in Asia (Eugene, OR: Wipf and Stock Publishers, 1861), 224. “The notion itself undoubtedly dates back to a period anterior to the Reformation. The Fratres Spirituales, or more rigid Franciscans, who refused the mitigations of the strictness of St. Francis’ rule, in which the majority of his followers allowed themselves, and who on this account separated themselves from them, and from the Church which sanctioned such relaxations, are the first among whom this scheme of interpretation assumed any prominence.”—Ibid., 227. ..." - Link

"... Victorinus wrote that the Apostle Paul was the first to teach that seven churches would span this age. He said that this is why Paul wrote his epistles to seven churches, although they were not the same ones the Lord addressed in Revelation. Tichaenius taught the same thing in the fourth century, and also Arethas of Cappadocia, Primasius of Adrumetum, Vitringa, and later Mede, More, Girdlestone, and a large body of other early teachers. The great physicist Newton also held this view of the seven churches in Revelation as a prophetic picture of the entire church age. ..." - Link

 

All right students... Now for a lesson on the seven churches from one who knows about them the best....

1. Study - Lesson one - No one can emphatically study Revelation and come to the same conclusions
2. Jesus Christ - Appears before John with seven stars in his hand and in the midst of seven golden candlesticks.

The seven churches

1. Ephesus - Began with the book of Acts
2. Smyrna - Began with Nero. Foxes lists the persecutions as ten
3. Pergamos - Began when Constantine liberated the Roman Empire
4. Thyatira - Began with Charlemange - The Roman Catholic Church
5. Sardis - Began with Martin Luther
6. Philadelphia - Began with the ana-Baptists - heavily persecuted during the 16th century and into the 17th by both Magisterial Protestants and Roman Catholics. John Bunyan is also Philadelphian and spent a good bit of his life in prison due to his resistance to the state run church.
7. Laodicea - I find traces of this church as early as DL Moody in the 1800's, Who angered the English with rumors of profits made from hymn book sales. DL Moody also was the first in my readings of history to buy a mansion with ministry proceeds.

Now each church had its issues and virtues. And I am not promoting one over the other. When it is all said and done one will be able to look back and see what arose from the times...

1. Apostolic church - Messianic
2. Martyred church - Gentile church beginning with the Apostle Paul.
3. Orthodox church - Orthodox - A Pygros is a tower - Needed in the dark ages. A barbaric time.
4. Catholic church - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate
5. Protestant church - A sardius is a gem - Elegant yet hard. Had a name but little in spirituality.
6. Revived church - The great awakening.
7. Materialistic church - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

If it were not for dispensationalism we would all be forced to worship in some state approved church!

The Seven Stars - We are all in one of these clusters held in the right hAnd of Christ!
The Seven Seals - Each church has its place within the Lambs Book of Life, sealed with seven seals.



The Apostle Paul began the Smyrnaen church, which has ten persecutions against her. Persecution ten days (from the Foxes book of Martyrs)...

67 AD Nero This age begins with Nero setting fire to Rome, then blaming the Christians.
81 AD Domitian Declaration that no Christian should be exempt from punishment, Timothy died in 97 AD.
108 AD Trajan-Adrian Severe persecution against Christians from 108 to 138 AD during the time of Ignatius.
162 AD Marcos Aurelius Marcos Aurelius, commendable in study of philosophy, sharp and fierce towards Christians.
192 AD Severus This persecution was carried out by the prejudice of the people and extended into Africa.
235 AD Maximus Numberless Christians were slain without trial and burned indiscriminately in heaps.
249 AD Decius Began because of the amazing increase in Christianity with the heathen temples forsaken.
257 AD Valerian The martyrs that were tortured and fell during this persecution were innumerable.
274 AD Aurelian A brief persecution that ended with the emperors assassination.
303 AD Diocletian The last persecution ended with Constantine's triumph against Rome in 313 AD.

Constantine - Began the Pergameon church (pergos is a tower in the Greek)
Charlemagne - Began the Thyatirean church - And really gave Jezebel a breath of fresh air
Martin Luther - Began the Sardisean church - Which at that time the Baptist church was in her infancy.
John Wesley - Continued the Philadelphian church - Too bad they could not keep the revival going
DL Moody - Began the Laodicean church - As he was the first to make money off Christianity, live in a mansion, and put very little weight in church doctrine.

 

The DL Moody mansion.... Which is why I had to credit him as the first Laodicean evangelist. That is quite a mansion even in today's standard! And comparable to the tele-evangelists mansions we see today!

 

Revelation is built upon the pattern, set in Revelation 1:

Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

[1] 'hast seen' (past)
[2] 'things which are' (present)
[3] 'things which shall be hereafter' (future)

For Revelation is 'historic'.

Who is Revelation being written to specifically?

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

First the Natural churches which naturally existed in Asia at that time, but also speaks to those 'spiritual' coming after (future) to them, as per 1 Corinthians 15:44-46.

Notice again this same pattern, all through Revelation.

Rev_4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

[1] 'which was' (past)
[2] 'and is' (present)
[3] 'and is to come' (future)
Again:

Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[1] 'was' (past)
[2] 'is' (present)
[3] 'shall' (future)
Again:

Rev_17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

[1] 'was' (past)
[2] 'is' (present)
[3] 'goeth' (future) Each in their proper contexts.

Thus all throughout Revelation, it is not merely to those natural 7 churches, but also to those in each period of time:

"... He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches ...", and speaks to all, "... To him that overcometh will I give ..."

The Holy Ghost, was not merely speaking to the 7 natural churches in Asia. He was speaking to all in every 'age'.

In Revelation 3:10 we see a specific example, as in each church, of something that was to affect much more than a local area:

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

That "hour" is identified in Revelation 17:

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

It is also identified in the 7th Seal:

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

That's why we're here robycop3, because you are saying that which is in error, and we are showing to you, from scripture, and history the truth of the matter to correct you and show you the way more perfectly. I truly think, we need a thread to correct your pride first and foremost though.

 

Changing the subject; does that mean you have no answer to the question?

And?

And I was curious first to find what "motivates" people to read it as pastor? Jesus gave a symbol -- stars -- and interpreted the symbol as angelos/messengers. He could have chosen to interpret it as pastor/elder/bishop as the interpretation, but he didn't.

 

Frogs? Revelation 16:v.13-16

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the MOUTH of the Dragon (Revelation 12:v.3 & 13:v.11), and out of the MOUTH of the Beast (Revelation 13:v.1-10), and out of the MOUTH of the false prophet. (the TAIL of the Red Dragon: Isaiah 9:15-16 and Revelation 12:v.4 - Check it out)

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that Great Day of God Almighty. - the Lord's Day, that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last Millennium, the Millennium of Christ -

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

According to Cambridge Dictionary, leapfrog means "to improve a position by moving quickly past or over something that blocks your way or by missing some stages of an activity or process:"

 

Who are these angels? 1 Corinthians 6:v.3 & 2

3 Know ye not that WE shall Judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall Judge the WORLD? and if the WORLD shall be Judged by you (we), are ye (we) unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

 

Ok, and it is exactly what the three unclean spirits like frogs do, being them as a stumbling block before the people of God.

 

Uh...it is the answer.

 

Looking beyond the historic lens with church history being laid out in a time line for the seven churches, there seems a lesson in the individual churches extending to today - e.g. the Church at Ephesus:

They were commended, they could not bear evil persons, or false apostles but tried everything presumably by the word.

They had labored and not given up.

BUT

They were rebuked - they had left their first love.

So a church true to the word and the word of the apostles laboring for the LORD.

Pure doctrine, yet they had left off their first love - presumably agape love -

1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.

 

Yes, I can see it clearly now. Four horses are only mentioned in Revelation 6, which proves the angels in Revelation 1-3 are pastors. Got it.

 

I dod not say that. I only addressed your point that messengers are only being used in fpir pastor in revelation. Not sure why the snarky post.

 

I tried to use sarcasm to make a point. I would be surprised if you don't or won't use the rest of the Bible to try to help understand the meaning of the four horses in Revelation chapter 6.

 

Could you explain Who are these angels? 1 Corinthians 6:v.3 & 2

3 Know ye not that WE shall Judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall Judge the WORLD? and if the WORLD shall be Judged by you (we), are ye (we) unworthy to judge the smallest matters?