Choice: God or Man - exegete John 6:32-40

This is what the gospel is for.

There is no scripture that supports that

 

Faith is still believing and that is what all this says. I agree with this passage. Where does it say it isn't believing? Faith is a mighty thing. Faith saves.
Is faith given to men after regeneration?. or does man have the ability to believe in any thing he wishes?
MB

 

Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
What people do you think Paul was speaking about?
MB

 

Psalms 65:4.

Matthew 11:25-27.
Matthew 11:15.
Matthew 13:9.
Matthew 13:10-11.
Matthew 13:43.
Matthew 16:13-17.
Mark 4:23.
Luke 8:8.
Luke 14:35.

Romans 8:5-8.
1 Corinthians 1:18-31.
1 Corinthians 2:14-16.
2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
1 Peter 2:9.

Revelation 2:7.
Revelation 2:11.
Revelation 3:6.
Revelation 3:13.
Revelation 13:9.

To believe the word of God, one must be "of God" ( John 8:47 ).
To follow Christ and "hear" His voice, one must be a sheep ( John 10:27 ).
To believe on Christ, one must be first, given to Him by His Father ( John 6:64-65 ), and Christ only gives eternal life to those that were given to Him by His Father ( John 17:2 ).
To believe, one must be first, ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).

It is a work of God to believe on Christ ( John 6:29 ), not a work of men.
Those that do not believe, are not His sheep ( John 10:26 ).
It is given to believers, to believe ( Philippians 1:29 ).

I encourage you to read them again...
Plenty of things that God says, support that.

 

Im not going to address each verse but they do not say what you suggest. It is reading a predetermined doctrine into them.

 

John 6 is not talking to everyone nor is it implied or have application that way. People do consider the gospel foolish but that was not my point.

 

From my perspective, you don't have to address any of it.

At this point, given the interaction that we've had over the past year or so, I would have to say that it is your opinion ( and that of many others ) that they do not say what I think that they say.
It is also my opinion ( and that of many others ) that they mean exactly what they say.
But to make the assertion that they do not say what I think that they say, is to tell me, with authority, that your view is correct.

That is, of course, your prerogative, and both "sides" do this.

With respect, I'll teach them one way, and you're free to preach and teach them however you wish.
We both stand before God and will answer to Him.

I believe that I've already answered this charge many times, Mark.

I get what I get because I see it saying something that you, apparently, do not.
I see each word as developing a doctrine that gives God all the glory for saving someone, and stripping men of any avenue of approach to Him and His grace, unless He decides to bestow that favor upon someone.

You don't seem to see this.


I guess we'll have to leave it at that.

 

John 6 like any other scripture is understood by other scripture, before it, after it and way down the line. The narrow set you gave made that impossible.

 

I agree.
Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4.

Please reference post # 33.

I didn't find it impossible.
Some years ago I would have had some difficulty, but now, by God's grace, I do not.

Scripture defines and "interprets" Scripture.

You saw what I did with the text...
It's not about man-made "systematic theology", and it never has been.
From my perspective, it's all about seeing the very words on the page, and understanding them.

What, if any parts of post # 33, do you disagree with and why?

I'm curious as to how you see each and every "verse" in the requested passage and how they all relate one to another.
In other words, when you read the text, what does each verse say to you, in your own words and step-by-step?

That is what the OP is asking.

 

That would be a mishandling of scripture.

 

How is it a mishandling of Scripture to tell someone what you see ( "exegesis", one's opinion of the very words ), verse by verse?

 

Not even all the disciples believed Judas certainly also Thomas had doubts. They were both chosen and drawn yet they had doubts. But these are Jews and they were blinded. Act's 28:28 does say that the Gentiles will hear the gospel. People can choose to believe or not. While in the doctrine you hold they have no choice. They don't have any faith to believe until they are regenerated. Our lord just does not save unbelievers. and afterwards make them believe No where in scripture does it ever say He does. If you think I'm wrong prove it with scripture. There is no such thing in scripture as forced Salvation. Salvation is a gift it is not something that you get by being elect. Judas was elect and it didn't give him any special consideration. Election does not mean any thing with out the person having faith in Jesus Christ.

Acts 13:48 KJV does not fit the passage. Here is why.
Act 13:48 And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe—as many as were appointed to life age-during;
This is from young's literal translation and is proof the KJV translation of this verse is in error. Greens Greek to English also says the same thing.
As well as other versions

This verse above proves Paul was speaking to the Jews and the Bible says they were blinded
because they rejected there messiah.Most are still blind to the truth

There is nothing in all of this part of acts that says the Gentiles cannot hear. There is nothing here to suggest that any cannot hear. Hearing the gospel is not a guarantee of Salvation. Rebellion sends many to Hell.
MB

 

[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

There's a difference between not having any choice, and we, as men already making our choice to reject Him and His words, day after day.

The latter is what God's word teaches, not the former.
Rebellion, against Him and His words.

There are many Scriptures that declare that men hear because they have "ears to hear", and do not because they do not.

Please see post # 105.

"Hearing" the Gospel with born again "ears" is the guarantee of eternal life ( 1 Corinthians 1:18, Ephesians 1:13 ).

But, hearing it physically, outside of the Holy Spirit's calling, is not.
Unless someone is "called", they are unable to "hear" His words.

Only those that are "of God" are able to "hear" ( John 8:47 ).
Those that are not, do not "hear".

Rebellion, which is what all of us are stuck in, willfully, is what sends all of us to Hell, except for God's grace and mercy ( Titus 3:5-6 ).