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Romans 11

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by glad4mercy, Oct 17, 2019.

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  1. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Romans 11:25 does not say all elect Israel will be saved. If it did, that would not have been qualified as a biblical mystery. All the prophets that ever existed in the nation knew that.
     
    #21 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
  2. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    besides this, the ones who believe and repent in every age leading up to the end are the remnant, and the ones who are blinded are not the remnant. But Paul did not say all the remnant shall be saved, he said all Israel will be saved

    if he meant all the remnant, he would be merely repeating what he already said earlier. But in verse 25, he is not speaking of the concept of a remnant, which was by no means a mystery. He was declaring a mystery, ie something that was not understood in ages past but was being revealed at that time by the Holy Spirit through illucidation of scripture

    the idea of a remnant was no mystery. It had been fully expounded by Isaiah hundreds of years prior
     
    #22 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, I addressed verses 1 through 10. So why ask a question about verse 25? If you agree with my analysis of verses 1-10 and have changed your view of those verses, say so. Otherwise address a point of disagreement in verses 1-10. I will be honored to answer it to the best of my ability.

    Once we have explored the basis of our differences, then I will provide analysis of Romans 11 additional verses including verse 25.
     
    #23 Van, Oct 19, 2019
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    When Jesus abolished circumcision, he made it impossible for anyone to become a physical Biblical Jew or a physical member of Biblical Israel. Today's Jews are gentiles with Jewish ethnicity. Only by accepting Christ will any be reunited with Biblical Israel aka the Church.
     
    #24 1689Dave, Oct 19, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Israel being a 'Nation', today in the Middle East, doesn't have a thing to do with any Bible Passage.

    Not a grain of dust.

    That does explain 'what you want it to say, though.

    There it is.

    The Bible says, All Israel shall be Saved', and there is a Nation of crossbred, intermingled, God-Hating religiously lost, blind souls over there looking for Their Messiah to Come, the first time.

    Ever hear of Saducies and Pharisees?

    Some bunch with mouths as open graves and whitewashed seplucres, another generation of vipers.

    Jesus Could Come Back before 12 noon, Eastern Time, today, and they'd most every one of them be cast into The Eternal Lake of Fire.

    No fruit on their tree, ever again.

    If you want 'a nation born in a day', go to the 3,000 and more Saved on The Day of Pentecost and were added, by Scriptural Baptism, to The church of Jesus Christ He Anointed that Day.

    I see what you are trying to plug, here and there, into some misconstruable wording (apparently), being used for that idea.

    It's not actually there, however.

    Has to be made up out of thin air.

    The philosophy about 'forbears', is just that.

    A Nation of lost, blind Infidels, without God and without Hope in this Life, or in Eternity, unless they have the Gospel Preached to the, and they are Granted Conviction of their sins and Repentance and Faith, is a Nation of lost, blind Infidels, without God and without Hope in this Life, or in Eternity, unless they have the Gospel Preached to them, and they are Granted Conviction of their sins and Repentance and Faith, in The Savior Jesus Christ.
     
    #25 Alan Gross, Oct 19, 2019
  6. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    No mention of second coming in Romans 11, completely transposed there by you. We can start there
     
    #26 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    It was a mystery to the Gentiles being spoken to, as I said, that a Remnant of Elect Jews would still be Saved dispite their number being greatly deminished, their part in The Death of Jesus, and the Gentiles Grafted in, in more significant numbers, or The Abomination of Desolation, or anything else.

    Roman's 11:25 is all The Elect Remnant of The Jews, until Jesus Returns.

    The prophets knew the Covenant Promise to The Elect Jews, in The Old and New Testament, and the mystery shared was a mystery to the Gentiles, of the remaining Elect Jews, in The New Testament Era, to still be Saved.

    The Remnant According to Election.

    For the Gentiles to not have conceit about thinking they were it, now.
     
    #27 Alan Gross, Oct 19, 2019
  8. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. And Romans 11:25-26 is talking about the same Israel as Romans 11:27-28.
     
    #28 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
  9. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    post above ignores biblical definition of “mystery”.
     
    #29 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
  10. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Yeah, sure. The Gentiles didn’t know that God was saving Jews...(tongue in cheek)
     
    #30 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I must need a cup of coffee, what verse was I addressing of the ten when I transposed Christ's second coming?
     
    #31 Van, Oct 19, 2019
  12. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    the future salvation of Jews will be accomplished in the same manner as gentile salvation or past Jewish salvation, through repentance and believing the Gospel

    the only thing that will change is that the eyes that are closed will be opened
     
    #32 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Romans 11:26 < Romans 10:1 < Romans 9:27, ". . . a remnant shall be saved: . . ."
     
    #33 37818, Oct 19, 2019
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But the broken off are not Israel.
     
    #34 1689Dave, Oct 19, 2019
  15. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    sorry. I read the wrong post

    ok, what I disagree with is this

    you said the blindness lasts as long as the lives of those living and passed away long ago. It would follow from your argument that the fulness of the Gentiles has already come,( long ago)

    nah....
     
    #35 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Since "scripture cannot contradict scripture" the logical deduction using elementary hermeneutics is that DNA has zilch to do with belonging to the Israel of God:

    9 and think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Mt
    3

    13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 3

    6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
    7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. Ro 9
     
    #36 kyredneck, Oct 19, 2019
  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You have a mystery to implant in there that I don't want to hear it.
     
    #37 Alan Gross, Oct 19, 2019
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Of a diminished Remnant.

    The 'future salvation' is today, or never.

    Today is the Day of Salvation.

    The Day of Salvation is The New Testament Era.

    This is the only Period of Repentance and Faith, through The Gospel.

    That is Romams 11.
     
    #38 Alan Gross, Oct 19, 2019
  19. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    They will not be saved by DNA, they will be saved by faith. Same as always. Therefore, what Romans 11:25-27 says about the Israelites of Romans 11:28-29 is not based on DNA. Rather it is based on the covenant God made with the Fathers
     
    #39 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
  20. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Romans 11:25-27 is speaking of the same Israel that Romans 11:28-29

    I can tell that you are kept from exegesis by your traditions,because you said the period of blindness only referred to those who lived back then, and had passed long ago. That is not only incoherant, it flies in the face of what Paul actually said.

    so you had the fulness of the Gentiles being completed 2,000 years ago. Makes zero sense

    and another guy said the blindness would end at the second coming and it would then be too late. The text says nothing about the second coming or end of the age

    you can tell people are not able to accept a passage’s clear meaning when they build house of straw interpretations like saying the fulness of the Gentiles was fulfilled 2,000 years ago
     
    #40 glad4mercy, Oct 19, 2019
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