1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Calvinism is the Gospel

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Dec 25, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 5 of 6
  1. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2019
    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes Received:
    765
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    No one is saved by being a Calvinist or an arminian or whatever other soteriology device you want to impose.
    Those are just classification systems people impose on Scripture to place things into groups which men love to do to try to understand things.
    I happen to agree with Calvinism as a soteriological system as it agrees with the scriptures.

    God is in charge of whom He makes born again and saves.
    But there is going to be payback, a judgement is on those who oppose the scriptures, it says they oppose the things of God.
     
    #81 Scott Downey, Dec 26, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why do you believe it is casting aspersions onto Calvinists to ask them questions?
     
    #82 JonC, Dec 26, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    No I was not aware of any such terms and churches.
    I was saved by God reading a bible to find mistakes and contradictions in it.
    I wound up in what was known as a conservative Baptist church.
    The first time I read Eph1 I knew it had to be that way.
    In time I started getting tapes from believers chapel out of Dallas,but was hearing about premill ideas.

    Now Scott has made some observations about your posts. You have denied what he observed.
    Could it be something about your posts has caught his eye?
    Could it be that others have suggested the same thing to you?
    You know the old saying, where there is smoke there is fire.
     
    #83 Iconoclast, Dec 26, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    #5
     
    #84 InTheLight, Dec 26, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 2
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So you were saved, experienced the power of God unto salvation (the gospel) in your own life. Praise God. I love to hear people relate their conversion experience. It is always the same from one perspective (it is the work of God) but our experiences are different.

    So you were saved and attended a conservative Baptist church. How did you end up accepting Calvinism?
     
    #85 JonC, Dec 26, 2019
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not know @Scott Downey and do not really know what he thinks he has observed. He offered no support for or examples of his opinion so I really can not say. They seem to be prejudiced and unfounded, perhaps projected emotions as this is a "hot topic" for some people even when they are unable to answer for their views (perhaps more so when they cannot).

    I've asked what I believe to be very basic questions I would ask of anyone regardless of theological disposition (and would expect to be asked of me). Why that is considered to be "casting aspersions" probably has more to do with him than me. I do not believe people are automatically entitled to opinions (something learned from CS Lewis) but I do not care that he holds them.
     
    #86 JonC, Dec 26, 2019
  7. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am not a non-Calvinist by choice, but because I was predestinated from eternity past by a mysterious-criterion-decree to be a non-Calvinist. I cannot fight against the sovereignty of God, and thus praise him as the will-forcing master potter who formed to be a non-Calvinist.
     
    #87 George Antonios, Dec 26, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  8. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have not seen one thing in Calvinism that is proved with scripture. No inability, No election for Gentiles, No limited atonement, No irresistible grace, No perseverance of the saints. No determinism.
    Just alot off suppositions and misguided beliefs with no support. What you use for support is defeated by simple reading of the complete text every time.
    MB
     
    #88 MB, Dec 26, 2019
  9. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    5,821
    Likes Received:
    798
    True or not, the Calvinism is not the Gospel, per se. It's merely an attempt to understand the sequence of events the occurred in the mind of God regarding salvation.
     
    #89 Calminian, Dec 26, 2019
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Hello Cal,

    What do you define as the gospel? let's develop this a bit. What is the good news?
     
    #90 Iconoclast, Dec 26, 2019
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Be careful in what you boast of George...looks as if judas was not a Calvinist either. Hopefully you do not desire to have his kind of belief, correct?;) There might be some things that are worse than a person being a Calvinist.
     
    #91 Iconoclast, Dec 26, 2019
  12. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I was predestinated to write this reply expressing my lack of understanding of your reply - which lack of understanding of course was predestinated from eternity past.
     
    #92 George Antonios, Dec 26, 2019
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    JonC

    .

    What if he wanted to show proof? would he be subject to Infractions?

    You say, They seem to be......he seemed pretty sure
    What if in fact they do exist JonC? What if others see it but you do not. Can you see how this becomes problematic?

    Earlier I asked how you understand the term good news, or gospel. What is your understanding?
    You suggested it did not matter, but you seemed to think it does by questing the OP?
    So...what do you mean by that term?
     
    #93 Iconoclast, Dec 26, 2019
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    LOL. So many non sequiturs. But to remain a noncalvinist is like remaining an Evolutionist. It demands a certain degree of ignorance, or the willful closing of one's eyes to the truth.

    ;)

    So which is your basis?
     
    #94 Aaron, Dec 26, 2019
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nice black and white fallacy
     
    #95 Revmitchell, Dec 26, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ecclesiastes 7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.
     
    #96 George Antonios, Dec 26, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    2,331
    Likes Received:
    500
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God has hardened hearts in scripture for his own reasons...
     
    #97 Particular, Dec 26, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    GA, I know you mean it in a light hearted way, but every event in our lives, is ordained by God.
    mt10:
    29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

    30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

    Mt.12:
    36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

    37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

    Do you believe this George?
     
    #98 Iconoclast, Dec 26, 2019
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Really? Isn't that what you think about Calvinists? You believe them to be in error, and if not in error, then willingly ignorant. Is there an alternative I'm missing?
     
    #99 Aaron, Dec 26, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He and I have had very little contact, but if he wants to quote a post from within this thread (between him and me) then it would not be an infraction because it is by virtue of it's presence here applicable to the topic at hand and fair game. People only get into trouble when they start drifting into other threads. This decontextualizes the initial post and in effect hijacks the thread at hand. Those types of personal agendas are not permitted.

    Earlier you asked how I understood the term "good news" or "gospel". I said that it does not matter to the context of the post because it does not. I did not want to hijack the thread and make it something it something other than related to "Calvinism is the gospel".

    But I do believe in having an answer for those who ask. I referenced D.A. Carson earlier. He said most people confuse the gospel with their understanding of the gospel, an explanation of the gospel, a need for the gospel, or what they see as the results of the gospel. I like his definition of the gospel:

    In the fullness of time his [God's] Son comes and takes on human nature. He comes not, in the first instance, to judge but to save: he dies the death of his people, rises from the grave and, in returning to his heavenly Father, bequeaths the Holy Spirit as the down payment and guarantee of the ultimate gift he has secured for them—an eternity of bliss in the presence of God himself, in a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
     
    #100 JonC, Dec 26, 2019
Page 5 of 6
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...