Calvinism is the Gospel

[Scott Downey]

No one is saved by being a Calvinist or an arminian or whatever other soteriology device you want to impose.
Those are just classification systems people impose on Scripture to place things into groups which men love to do to try to understand things.
I happen to agree with Calvinism as a soteriological system as it agrees with the scriptures.

God is in charge of whom He makes born again and saves.
But there is going to be payback, a judgement is on those who oppose the scriptures, it says they oppose the things of God.

 

[JonC]

See I view your attitude as one of casting aspersions onto Calvinists.
No doubt some people are 'triggered' by the word into volatile flesh filled emotions.
As an answer, no not really, but I see the hatefulness very evident in many people who are Christians.
Then you have some who say a Calvinist worships an evil god, which is quite a strong judgement to make. I really dont think God will let that pass without some pay back..

aspersion[ uh-spur-zhuhn, -shuhn ]SHOW IPA

a damaging or derogatory remark or criticism; slander:
casting aspersions on a campaign rival.
the act of slandering; vilification; defamation; calumniation; derogation:
Such vehement aspersions cannot be ignored.

Why do you believe it is casting aspersions onto Calvinists to ask them questions?

 

[Iconoclast]

And you are wrong. You have no way of knowing my attitude. Calvinism has never been a derogatory word in my view. It expresses how some of my brothers understand the gospel. It is a view that I also held and taught, and although I now see it as wrong I harbor no ill towards people for holding that view.

So in your false assumptions you have cast aspersion upon me and have falsely slandered my character. This is an issue on these forums, and highlights the problem with the nature of the OP. Some people see anyone
L

Iconoclast,

Is it fair to say that you were saved in a Calvinistic church (rather than saved and over time through study moved to Reformed theology)?

No I was not aware of any such terms and churches.
I was saved by God reading a bible to find mistakes and contradictions in it.
I wound up in what was known as a conservative Baptist church.
The first time I read Eph1 I knew it had to be that way.
In time I started getting tapes from believers chapel out of Dallas,but was hearing about premill ideas.

Now Scott has made some observations about your posts. You have denied what he observed.
Could it be something about your posts has caught his eye?
Could it be that others have suggested the same thing to you?
You know the old saying, where there is smoke there is fire.

 

[InTheLight]

A big problem with non Calvinists, they do not know enough scriptures so they feed on fleshy ideas like your suggestion.

#5

 

[JonC]

No I was not aware of any such terms and churches.
I was saved by God reading a bible to find mistakes and contradictions in it.
I wound up in what was known as a conservative Baptist church.
The first time I read Eph1 I knew it had to be that way.
In time I started getting tapes from believers chapel out of Dallas,but was hearing about premill ideas.

So you were saved, experienced the power of God unto salvation (the gospel) in your own life. Praise God. I love to hear people relate their conversion experience. It is always the same from one perspective (it is the work of God) but our experiences are different.

So you were saved and attended a conservative Baptist church. How did you end up accepting Calvinism?

 

[JonC]

Now Scott has made some observations about your posts. You have denied what he observed.
Could it be something about your posts has caught his eye?
Could it be that others have suggested the same thing to you?
You know the old saying, where there is smoke there is fire.

I do not know @Scott Downey and do not really know what he thinks he has observed. He offered no support for or examples of his opinion so I really can not say. They seem to be prejudiced and unfounded, perhaps projected emotions as this is a "hot topic" for some people even when they are unable to answer for their views (perhaps more so when they cannot).

I've asked what I believe to be very basic questions I would ask of anyone regardless of theological disposition (and would expect to be asked of me). Why that is considered to be "casting aspersions" probably has more to do with him than me. I do not believe people are automatically entitled to opinions (something learned from CS Lewis) but I do not care that he holds them.

 

[George Antonios]

I am not a Calvinist by choice, but because I cannot help it. (Sermons, Vol. 18, p. 692)

I am not a non-Calvinist by choice, but because I was predestinated from eternity past by a mysterious-criterion-decree to be a non-Calvinist. I cannot fight against the sovereignty of God, and thus praise him as the will-forcing master potter who formed to be a non-Calvinist.

 

[MB]

No one is saved by being a Calvinist or an arminian or whatever other soteriology device you want to impose.
Those are just classification systems people impose on Scripture to place things into groups which men love to do to try to understand things.
I happen to agree with Calvinism as a soteriological system as it agrees with the scriptures.

God is in charge of whom He makes born again and saves.
But there is going to be payback, a judgement is on those who oppose the scriptures, it says they oppose the things of God.

I have not seen one thing in Calvinism that is proved with scripture. No inability, No election for Gentiles, No limited atonement, No irresistible grace, No perseverance of the saints. No determinism.
Just alot off suppositions and misguided beliefs with no support. What you use for support is defeated by simple reading of the complete text every time.
MB

 

[Calminian]

When we ask what is the gospel, the good news, several answers can be offered.
We could say;

1.Jesus......he is indeed great news, but if someone has not heard of Him would they really understand how he is good news?

2.Jesus saves.....that also is great news, but the question then is saves who? saves what? why is it necessary?

3.Jesus saves sinners....also good news, but saves them from what?

4.Jesus saves sinners in Christ. nice, now what does it mean to be In Christ?

5.Jesus saves elect sinners given to Him by the Father..great news, when and how did this take place,etc

Some will offer the historical "facts" of the gospel....

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

They offer the historic facts, but ignore the words...'according to the scriptures'

CHS picked up on this and offered this from one of his sermons;

On Calvinism



It is no novelty, then, that I am preaching; no new doctrine. I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are truly and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus. By this truth I make my pilgrimage into the past, and as I go, I see father after father, confessor after confessor, martyr after martyr, standing up to shake hands with me . . . Taking these things to be the standard of my faith, I see the land of the ancients peopled with my brethren; I behold multitudes who confess the same as I do, and acknowledge that this is the religion of God's own church. (Spurgeon's Sovereign Grace Sermons, Still Waters Revival Books, p. 170)

I have my own opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel if we do not preach justification by faith without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing unchangeable eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross. (Autobiography: 1, The Early Years, p. 168)



George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists. (Sermons, Vol. 2, p. 124)



I do not ask whether you believe Calvinism. It is possible that you do not. But I believe you will before you enter heaven. I am persuaded that as God may have washed your hearts, He will wash your brains before you enter heaven. (Sermons, Vol. 1, p. 92)



Calvinism is the Gospel. (Sermons, Vol. 1, p. 50)



Calvinism did not spring from Calvin. We believe that it sprang from the great Founder of all truth. (Sermons, Vol. 7, p. 298)



I am not a Calvinist by choice, but because I cannot help it. (Sermons, Vol. 18, p. 692)

Most Calvinists understand that the wording "according to the scriptures" means the gospel is all about Jesus bring the whole man, to the whole Christ, efficaciously.

Some attempt to fragment this understanding and call it a theory, or a philosophy. Those who grasp the doctrine derive it according to the scriptures.

A correct understanding of the fall into sin and death is quite necessary. Spiritual and physical death happened at the time of the fall. Denying spiritual death happened is fatal to a correct biblical understanding.

Denying The penal substitutionary atonement also leads to gross errors.

There is no area of theology that does not intertwine with the teaching.

On another thread, some suggest keeping it separate from the other topics on the BB.
That would be easier said than done.

True or not, the Calvinism is not the Gospel, per se. It's merely an attempt to understand the sequence of events the occurred in the mind of God regarding salvation.

 

[Iconoclast]

True or not, the Calvinism is not the Gospel, per se. It's merely an attempt to understand the sequence of events the occurred in the mind of God regarding salvation.

Hello Cal,

What do you define as the gospel? let's develop this a bit. What is the good news?

 

[Iconoclast]

I am not a non-Calvinist by choice, but because I was predestinated from eternity past by a mysterious-criterion-decree to be a non-Calvinist. I cannot fight against the sovereignty of God, and thus praise him as the will-forcing master potter who formed to be a non-Calvinist.

Be careful in what you boast of George...looks as if judas was not a Calvinist either. Hopefully you do not desire to have his kind of belief, correct? There might be some things that are worse than a person being a Calvinist.

 

[George Antonios]

Be careful in what you boast of George...looks as if judas was not a Calvinist either. Hopefully you do not desire to have his kind of belief, correct? There might be some things that are worse than a person being a Calvinist.

I was predestinated to write this reply expressing my lack of understanding of your reply - which lack of understanding of course was predestinated from eternity past.

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC

I do not know @Scott Downey and do not really know what he thinks he has observed. He offered no support for or examples of his opinion so I really can not say

.

What if he wanted to show proof? would he be subject to Infractions?

They seem to be

You say, They seem to be......he seemed pretty sure
What if in fact they do exist JonC? What if others see it but you do not. Can you see how this becomes problematic?

Earlier I asked how you understand the term good news, or gospel. What is your understanding?
You suggested it did not matter, but you seemed to think it does by questing the OP?
So...what do you mean by that term?

 

[Aaron]

Oh, so one is never learning of Him if they are not Calvinist,?

LOL. So many non sequiturs. But to remain a noncalvinist is like remaining an Evolutionist. It demands a certain degree of ignorance, or the willful closing of one's eyes to the truth.



So which is your basis?

 

[Revmitchell]

LOL. So many non sequiturs. But to remain a noncalvinist is like remaining an Evolutionist. It demands a certain degree of ignorance, or the willful closing of one's eyes to the truth.



So which is your basis?

Nice black and white fallacy

 

[George Antonios]

LOL. So many non sequiturs. But to remain a noncalvinist is like remaining an Evolutionist. It demands a certain degree of ignorance, or the willful closing of one's eyes to the truth.



So which is your basis?

Ecclesiastes 7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.

 

[Particular]

I am not a non-Calvinist by choice, but because I was predestinated from eternity past by a mysterious-criterion-decree to be a non-Calvinist. I cannot fight against the sovereignty of God, and thus praise him as the will-forcing master potter who formed to be a non-Calvinist.

God has hardened hearts in scripture for his own reasons...

 

[Iconoclast]

I was predestinated to write this reply expressing my lack of understanding of your reply - which lack of understanding of course was predestinated from eternity past.

GA, I know you mean it in a light hearted way, but every event in our lives, is ordained by God.
mt10:
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Mt.12:
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Do you believe this George?

 

[Aaron]

Nice black and white fallacy

Really? Isn't that what you think about Calvinists? You believe them to be in error, and if not in error, then willingly ignorant. Is there an alternative I'm missing?

 

[JonC]

JonC

.

What if he wanted to show proof? would he be subject to Infractions?


You say, They seem to be......he seemed pretty sure
What if in fact they do exist JonC? What if others see it but you do not. Can you see how this becomes problematic?

Earlier I asked how you understand the term good news, or gospel. What is your understanding?
You suggested it did not matter, but you seemed to think it does by questing the OP?
So...what do you mean by that term?

He and I have had very little contact, but if he wants to quote a post from within this thread (between him and me) then it would not be an infraction because it is by virtue of it's presence here applicable to the topic at hand and fair game. People only get into trouble when they start drifting into other threads. This decontextualizes the initial post and in effect hijacks the thread at hand. Those types of personal agendas are not permitted.

Earlier you asked how I understood the term "good news" or "gospel". I said that it does not matter to the context of the post because it does not. I did not want to hijack the thread and make it something it something other than related to "Calvinism is the gospel".

But I do believe in having an answer for those who ask. I referenced D.A. Carson earlier. He said most people confuse the gospel with their understanding of the gospel, an explanation of the gospel, a need for the gospel, or what they see as the results of the gospel. I like his definition of the gospel:

In the fullness of time his [God's] Son comes and takes on human nature. He comes not, in the first instance, to judge but to save: he dies the death of his people, rises from the grave and, in returning to his heavenly Father, bequeaths the Holy Spirit as the down payment and guarantee of the ultimate gift he has secured for them—an eternity of bliss in the presence of God himself, in a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.