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Featured WHAT ARE THE BASIC PROBLEMS IN LORDSHIP SALVATION?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Steven_15, May 14, 2020.

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  1. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    We cannot directly see the Holy Spirit.

    But we can see the affects of someone having the Spirit in them:

    " This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    3 without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    4 traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    5 having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    7 ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
    8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."
    ( 2 Timothy 3:1-8 ).

    We are to turn away from such as resist the truth, have a form of godliness but in their actions they deny His presence and power.
    We not only have the privilege, but we are commanded to beware of false teachers:

    " Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. "
    ( Matthew 7:15-16 ).

    The fruits:

    "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another."
    ( Galatians 5:19-26 ).

    Lastly, we as believers can know what false teachers look like, from God's perspective:

    2 Peter 2.

    They walk after the flesh and the lusts of it, are not afraid to speak badly of government officials, and despise government.
    They are covetous, always asking for money, etc.
    They propagate false doctrines and other things the Bible does not teach.

    They sometimes even deny the Lord as being the Son of God in the flesh, deny other things like the Virgin birth, and at times live in direct disobedience to God and His commands.

    I can turn on my television to a certain world-wide channel and see them at work every day.:(
     
    #121 Dave G, May 17, 2020
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    you have missed the point. Salvation does not depend on whether or not i have made Christ the LORD of my life but rather if i have been born again.
     
  3. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Lordship Salvationists have none of the fruit you quoted. Theirs is a phoney transformation similar to non-christians who use the motivation of punishments and rewards in the moral law to reform themselves.

    Non-christians have more of love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, meekness, temperance than the lordship Salvationists. What differentiates the non-christians from true christians is faith in Christ's atonement for both justification and sanctification.
     
  4. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Demons believe there is one God. Where does Bible say demons believe in Christ's atonement?

    Don't talk rubbish and demean faith by your stupid ignorance.
     
  5. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    You have repented by lowering the bar of God's command as stated in Mathew 5:48 to suit your sinfulness and then boast about it. That's a stupid repentance.
     
  6. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Is believing in Christ's atonement the same as saying the sinner's prayer? Don't talk rubbish demeaning faith without which none could please God.
     
  7. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    So you are regenerated and therefore sinless?
     
  8. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Read Mathew 5:48 to know about what God demands for salvation. Ate you pretending you can fulfill the moral law?
     
  9. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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  10. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    So you have accepted Jesus's Lordship? Have you obeyed Him perfectly? Are you sinless ready to be saved?

    Or you are a phoney christian lowering the standard of obedience to suit your sinfulness and pretend you are saved?
     
  11. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Steve, it seems you worship the sacrifice and ignore the one who gave his life for those he would redeem.
    The one who gave his life for those he chose to redeem also gave his redeemed the faith to believe.
    You take this gift and attempt to wield it as an amulet that magically does whatever you command it to do. You treat the sacrificial payment of Christ in the same fashion, as though it were a magical talisman for you to wield and vanquish whomever or whatever you wish. Your immaturity in the faith is obvious to me and I suspect it is obvious to many others. While I doubt you will take this advice, I suggest you sit back and actually learn what God says about faith rather than continue to speak without understanding.
     
  12. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    You are a lordship Salvationists. Before losing your respect get away from this thread.
     
  13. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Your contribution is good. Don't be offended please. The quotation is from John MacArthur's writings.

    My earlier reply to you wasn't meant for you. Got mixed up. God bless you, Bro.
     
    #133 Steven_15, May 18, 2020
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  14. Noah Hirsch

    Noah Hirsch Active Member

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    What is it to be born again? Can you explain to me the nature and signs of the new birth in a sinner?
     
  15. Noah Hirsch

    Noah Hirsch Active Member

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    Did
    Did you listen to the message?
     
  16. Noah Hirsch

    Noah Hirsch Active Member

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    I did not say anything about being sinless.
     
  17. Noah Hirsch

    Noah Hirsch Active Member

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    I can embrace Jesus’ Lordship, believe and trust in Him as my Prophet, Teacher, and King without becoming sinful or perfect. Perfectionism is heresy.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    The purpose of a thread is to gain answers to a particular question and to let in those try to disrupt it.

    MacArthur states:

    "Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

    "Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

    The Word of God calls the above a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
     
  19. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    MacArthur states:

    "Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

    "Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

    The Word of God calls it a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
     
  20. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    John MacArthur has been confronted several times about his teachings on "Lordship Salvation", and it seems he does not wish to retract any of it.

    While I understand that what he sees in Scripture is the necessity, at some point, of a believer being conformed into the image of Christ ( Romans 8:29 ), he appears to skip right from the new birth to full maturity without taking into account that believers take time to grow in the faith...
    And that they often stumble into sin and the Lord patiently chastises and causes them to see their errors, and to resolve to walk worthy of their calling and election.

    This is where I have a distinct disagreement with him, if I'm understanding him correctly.
     
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