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Featured The Imaginary Covenant of Grace

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Sai, May 24, 2020.

  1. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture.


    I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.


    God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.


    If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).


    The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    It would probably be better if the Covenant of Grace were renamed the Everlasting Covenant, but references to it can be found in various parts of the Bible if one is prepared to look for them as the following examples will show:-

    Luke 22:22. “And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined……” Determined where and by whom if not in the Covenant of Grace?

    John 6:38-39. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.” Christ has been given a people and the task by the Father which He is determined to fulfill. What can this refer to if not the Covenant of Grace?

    John 10:16. “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.” Not, “I will bring,” but, “I must bring.” Our Lord had been given a commission to fulfill.

    John 10:17-18. “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” Where did Christ receive this command, the doing of which merited so well the Father’s love? In the Covenant of Grace, of course.

    Philippians 2:6-8 (my translation). ‘Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be held onto, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.’ In the Covenant of Grace, our Lord gave up temporarily that equality with the Father that had existed from all eternity, and became the willing servant of Exodus 21:5-6 and Psalm 40:6-8 in order to rescue those who had been given to Him (John 17:2, 6 ).

    Heb 2:13. ‘Here am I and the children whom God has given to Me.’ Given by the Father to the Son in the Covenant of Grace to be redeemed from sin and brought to heaven.

    In Isaiah 42:6, Christ is described as the Covenant itself. He is, in His own Person and work, the very substance of it. In Malachi 3:1, He is, ‘The Messenger of the Covenant’ because He came to proclaim it and make it known. In Heb 7:22, He is, ‘The Surety of a better covenant.’ Christ came as the representative of fallen Man, being engaged to fulfill the obligations incurred under the Covenant of Works. In Heb 9:15, He is, ‘The Mediator of the New Covenant’ since He has brought about legal satisfaction between God and man so that covenantal blessings are now imparted to those who had previously forfeited them, and He now stands between the two parties, advocating the cause of man to God (1John 2:1 ) and speaking a word of the comfort of God to the weary man (Isaiah 50:4 ).

    Extract from my blog: The Covenants part II. The Covenant of Grace
     
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  3. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Systematic theology is one valid method of rightly dividing the scriptures. What would be your definition of a biblical covenant?


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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Agree!

    Agree!

    I believe the scriptures presents the old covenant as an addition, after the fact:

    19 What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise hath been made; and it was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator. Gal 3

    And then it was removed:

    27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain. Heb 12

    15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2

    The 'old' law covenant had been ADDED, thereby casting a shadow of the eternal covenant that lay behind it, and then it was REMOVED.
     
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  5. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure any theology rightly divides. It barely interprets. The Holy Spirit rightly divides in spirit and truth. I would say dispensations because "people" gets to emotionally charged. The Law was given for one period of time. It is still doing it's job. Yes Grace grew both trees, because one tree was necessary for Grace to even work. The other tree was over and above the one that teaches the world what evil is.
     
  6. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    What legion of scripture don’t you fully understand then?


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  7. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Legion is an odd term when it comes to understanding. I guess you will have to be more specific in your quest.
     
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  8. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to figure out what the OP is saying. Is the OP saying that God, from the fall, onward to the cross, did not save his elect by grace through faith?

    If so, by what other means did God save someone?
     
  9. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    There are 8 individual Covenants in the Bible not just 2. The fact that many have adopted the 2 Covenant theory is the product of your question’s authenticity. The Covenants: (1) Edenic, (2) Adamic, (3) Noahic, (4) Abrahamic, (5) Land, (6) Mosaic, (7) Davidic, and (8) New Covenant


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  10. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    You didn't come close to answering my question. Care to try again?

    I'm trying to figure out what the OP is saying. Is the OP saying that God, from the fall, onward to the cross, did not save his elect by grace through faith?

    If so, by what other means did God save someone?
     
  11. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Read the last sentence of the OP


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  12. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    What Steve ( @Martin Marprelate ) said.
    He didn't.
    Agreed.
    Sure it is...

    It's called the "Old Testament" and involved a physical chosen people...
    Israel.

    But within that chosen nation, there was and always will be those whom God has chosen for Himself under a covenant of grace, through His Son's blood.
    Yet, it does spell it out.
    See Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8, which is the fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophecy about a better covenant.
     
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  13. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    I can understand how you think this. However, it requires a certain amount of willful ignorance.


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  14. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Ignorance of what?
    Hebrews 8?
     
  15. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    We usually speak of prophecy as being fulfilled, and this especially pertains to the covenant by which we are saved.

    How is “spell out” a biblical term?
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    How about providing some scripture?
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yea. Ignorance of what?
     
  18. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Sure. Let’s start with what defines a biblical covenant. We can do this by comparing all of the scriptures that deal with them. I’ll be on it soon. Thx


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  19. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Ignoring the evidence of what constitutes a covenant between God and man and therefore ignoring it.


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  20. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    Here’s an example.
    When the world says capital punishment goes against the teachings of Christ, many believers go along with them because the Bible clearly teaches that the Mosaic Law in its entirety has been rendered inoperative. However, although that covenant was temporal and conditional, the Noahic Covenant is not a temporal nor a conditional one. And within the eternal Noahic Covenant was the provision for capital punishment for murderers.


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