Featured The Imaginary Covenant of Grace

So who is it that says there is only two covenants?

 

The same as the New...
By the grace and mercy of God through His word and trusting in His word.

What does Romans 4 state?

" For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." ( Romans 4:3-5 ).

And what is faith in God and God's word the evidence of?

" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." ( Hebrews 11:1-4 ).

The Old Testament saints were born again the same as the New...
All of God's children must fit this necessary evidence:

" Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." ( John 3:3 ).

Yet, they all believed that God was their Saviour:

David : " Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation." ( Psalms 38:22 ).
Psalms 51.

Mary: " And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." ( Luke 1:46-47 )

Who is Jesus Christ but God in the flesh, the "personification" of Whom the Old Testament saints trusted in?

 

mikey how are you? Greetings from north Carolina. The new perspective regarding paul ? No i dont believe that . I mean sure nt makes some points like we should read pauls writings from a 1st century jewish perspective and that does bring a better sense of what paul was trying to say but the whole debate about the new perspective has taken on a life of its own. Id rather not get into that .so all i was saying is that in judaism there is no covenant of works and you wont find any such teaching in the entire bible thats all i was saying mikey .

 

exactly! they placed trust into the promised messiah God said would one day come, and God placed them into His remnant on the basis of that Messiah and Cross yet to come!
Now what I do not fully understand is if they had the Holy Spirit just as we do now, or if God remitted and counted not their sins against them, but were not exactly 'saved" as indwelt by Holy Spirit!

 

Some also see there is an eternal Covenant between the Godhead themselves in regards to plan of redemption!

Basically, how one views he CoG will decide if one is Presbyterian or a Baptist, as How new really was the NC?

 

Cornelius had to be born again in order to get saved!

 

they had to trust in and believe that Messiah was coming from God to save them from their sins!

 

Always been on the basis of the Cross of Christ, saved by grace alone thru faith alone! The OT saints looked forward to Messiah, and we look back and know him as Jesus!

 

What is a covenant?
The Hebrew word used in the Old Testament is Bara, which comes from a root word meaning ‘bonds’ or ‘yokes.’ The idea is of two parties binding themselves to perform some mutually agreed action. The Greek word is diatheke, which means a ‘disposition’ or ‘arrangement.’ The puritan John Owen defined a covenant as, ‘A voluntary convention, pact, agreement between distinct persons about the ordering and dispensing of things in their power, to their mutual concern or advantage.’ A simpler definition might be, ‘A mutual agreement, a benefit being assured on the fulfilment of certain conditions.’

There is an example of a covenant in 1 Samuel 20:11-17. Jonathan promises to help David escape from Saul, and David promises to show kindness to Jonathan’s descendants (cf. 2 Samuel 9:1 ). There is an oath and the name of the Lord is invoked (vs 12, 16-17 ). This is an example of a covenant between equals. Sometimes we see covenants between parties where one side is clearly superior to the other. These are called by theologians Suzerainty Covenants.. In such cases, the terms of the covenant are dictated by the stronger side (eg. 1 Kings 20:34 ), and the benefits are therefore likely to accrue to the stronger at the expense of the weaker. It goes without saying that God is always the Superior and He dictates the terms of the covenants into which He enters. However, God’s unmerited love towards sinners means that His covenantal plans bring blessings to those who are without power or strength (Romans 5:8 ).

I believe the various covenants may be listed according to the following groups. This is very much my own idea and I therefore offer it tentatively:-

Two covenants transacted between God and a Covenant or Representative head. These are the so-called Covenant of Works made with Adam, and the Covenant of Grace or Everlasting Covenant made with Christ.

Three covenants of Promise (cf. Ephesians 2:12 ). These are the covenants with Noah, with Abraham and with David. These are covenants with individuals, purely gracious, and having reference to a coming ‘Seed.’ [Some may add one with Adam based on Genesis 3:15]

Two covenants made between God and a people: the Old (or ‘First,’ 'Sinaitic' or ‘Mosaic’) Covenant and the New Covenant. One is made with reference to the law, the other with reference to faith; one with [some of] the physical descendants of Abraham; the other with his spiritual descendants (Galatians 3:7 . The New Covenant is discovered to be nothing else but the Covenant of Grace revealed and realized as the consummation of all the covenants (Colossians 1:26; Hebrews 13:20. cf. Exodus 2:24; Psalms 111:5; Ezekiel 16:60-61; Luke 1:72 ).

 

was there a third eternal one between the Godhead themselves?

 

@Sai I do not subscribe to full Covenant Theology, just as I do not subscribe to full on dispensationalism. However, if you are going to attack Covenant Theology you should at least correctly present their arguments.

 

Hey,

I was just clarifying what you said, as jews never believed in works salvation and there was not covenant of works are not the same thing. Thanks for claifying, and indeed NPP is complicated.

 

So Noah's obedience was or was not counted as Faith? He went through all 100 years, survived the Flood and God still did not reveal to him that his obedience was considered faith? God did reveal to Noah, what Jesus would do. Because Noah's faith and obedience to build an Ark, could have been given to another human. Noah was not about to let another human do the task, God let him do. Noah knew the world would be destroyed and only 8 humans would start the world over, and that God Himself would come to earth as one of Noah's descendants. Noah obeyed and trusted (had faith) for 100 years because until the Flood came and by that sight. Noah knew God would Himself come and save the world from Adam's disobedience that brought sin into the world. Noah at the end, just going to hell anyways, does not make sense.