Calvinism and Arminianism foreknowledge compared with respect to time

God is not inside time is he ?

 

Then there are people in hell that He loves and that His Son has paid for their sins on the cross.
Why are they then in hell?

 

Let's take a closer look at this passage:

1) Believers are God's workmanship.
2) God created the believer "in Christ Jesus".
3) He created them in Christ Jesus to good works.
4) That creation in Christ Jesus to good works, was ordained by God that they should walk in those good works.

Do you see the significance of what is stated here, @Barry Johnson and @Derf B ?

 

He created time ( Acts of the Apostles 17:26, Psalms 74:17 )

 

God is also throughout all time, Psalms 90:2, ". . . from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." And God being omnipresent, Acts of the Apostles 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; . . ." Or as the Psalmist wrote, Psalms 139:8, ". . . if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. . . ."

 

God calls people af

Because no one is saved when Jesus died on the cross . Why do you believe people are in Hell paying for their sins ? Jesus payed for all sins but that is not how we are saved is it ? when Jesus said " it is finished, you were still on your way to hell . The only way to not go to hell is to be sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption.

 

Dont miss hear me . No one can be saved apart from the death of christ . God takes away the sin of the world, so all can freely come and be redeemed. But not all want to come. Unfortunately you have adopted somewhere on your journey the false notion that Jesus death secured only those whom were in the mind of God before they were created. Which you need to check out why calvernism is Gnosctism.

 

Those verses don’t say anything about God creating time.

 

Are you saying there are some people God wants to walk in sin?

 

To be either one's Savior or one's condemning Judge. Romans 14:9, Romans 14:11. Romans 8:34.

 

I guess I need some clarification from you. I thought all of us are saved by the death of Christ. He took our place on the cross we deserved, and as He died, He cried, “It is finished!” Was there more to be done?

 

So are you arguing in Acts of the Apostles 17:26 and in Psalms 74:17 God is dependant on time which He did not create?

 

John 19:30, He was referring to what was already fully completed before He physically died, John 19:28, ". . . Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, . . ." The word translated "accomplished" is the very same word translated, "It is finished."

 

This is key to this conversation!!!

 

Sure they are.
It's called "the purpose of God according to election."

Because if Christ died for everyone, and actually PAID for those sins at the cross, then God is:

1) Sending people to Hell that He loves.
2) Sending people to Hell whose sins are forgiven.

On what basis does God justify a sinner?
The basis of Christ's finished work on the cross for them, and His shed blood.

Who did Christ die for?
If all men, then you have a contradiction, Barry.
Look at it closer.

 

Again, if Christ took away the sins of all men, then there are people in Hell whose sins were taken away.
How do you get by that, Barry?

Does the Bible actually answer why men do not want to come to Christ?
Yes.

John 10:26.
John 6:64-65.
John 6:37-44.
John 3:19-20.

Unfortunately Barry, those answers are all found in God's word.

The same word I keep sharing with you, and the same words you apparently keep overlooking...
Why, I do not know.
@Barry Johnson , I get my understanding from God's word and God's word alone.

You are free to accuse me of being a "gnostic" if you like, but I'm being completely honest with you.
I don't have any use for books about theology, as God is my Teacher ( 1 John 2:20-27 ).

 

The only way not to go to Hell is to be saved by Almighty God, Barry.
All the rest, such as sealing, "calling", belief, faith, growth as a Christian and so forth are benefits, or "by-products" of a person having mercy and grace shown to them by a kind and loving God ( Titus 3:5-6 ).

The same God who is willing to show His wrath and to make His power known by sending unjust sinners to eternal torment in the Lake of Fire, is also willing to show His love to some of those sinners by bestowing the gift of eternal life upon them.
He makes them just by the blood of His Son.

Ultimately, He decides who to save, Barry.

Unfortunately, you've adopted the false notion that something you can do will result in gaining God's eternal favor.
That's not grace, Barry.
That is works ( Romans 11:5-6 ).

Eternal life is a gift, not a reward.

 

No.
I'm saying that there are people that God leaves in their sins, and there are people that God graciously rescues from their willful and heard-hearted love of it.

 

" And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

" Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter. "

He created the seasons, the rain, the snow, the sun and the moon, the day and the night...
Everything by which we as men mark "time", He has created.

 

God is sovereign, and yet he factors into the future what will happen both his determined Will and permitting others decisions!