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Featured The Natural man

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Jun 30, 2020.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    A Christian who is committing sin by giving in to what their flesh demands them to be doing!
     
    #101 Yeshua1, Jul 3, 2020
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Some sins seem to be a mark of an unbeliever (homosexual lifestyle, murderous, haughty spirit, unforgiving spirit, drunkard, ect).

    But some seem to be stumbling (an event).

    If I drink too much that is a sin. But if I keep on drinking too much I am a drunkard.

    If you sin against me I may at first seek retaliation (a sin). If neither of us forgives the other then we are mastered by sin (we have an "unforgiving" spirit).

    If I shoplift from Walmart I have sinned. If this us normal for me I am a thief (mastered by sin).

    The sins are the same (between the lost and the saved). The difference is the Christian overcomes the sin. God disciplines those who are His own.
     
    #102 JonC, Jul 3, 2020
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The real saved person will eventually agree with God that they are doing sin, and repent and confess of it, while the ,ere professor has no change in lifestyle or behavior!
     
    #103 Yeshua1, Jul 3, 2020
  4. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    I have already addressed this here:

    The Archangel
     
    #104 The Archangel, Jul 3, 2020
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    How do you interact with professing Christians who live according to the flesh (unforgiving, slanderous, abusive, immoral, violent, ect.)?
     
    #105 JonC, Jul 3, 2020
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul stated to us to warn them, and if they refuse to do the right thing, treat them as if really lost until they come back!
     
    #106 Yeshua1, Jul 3, 2020
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Apply this to a common occurance on the BB -

    M is offended by A. A explains M misunderstood and apologizes. M holds a grudge and will not forgive the perceived wrong.

    M obviously has an unforgiving spirit. Do we treat M as if M is not saved?

    It is easy to apply to extreme cases. Perhaps it is less easy with more common sin.
     
    #107 JonC, Jul 3, 2020
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They should be approached by a moderator and informed of their un christlike spirit, but done in a private message!
     
    #108 Yeshua1, Jul 3, 2020
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am speaking in general (when it occurs I am sure it is handled that way).

    What I am trying to do is move from hypotheticals that are extreme (fornication, murder, theft, ect.) to something we encounter more often in Christian communities.

    Do you believe a Christian who "walks in darkness" (e.g. a disobedient, unforgiving spirit; a slanderor; a gossip, ect.). should enjoy the fellowship of Christians who are trying to be obedient to God?
     
    #109 JonC, Jul 3, 2020
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Referring to post #32.
    Which I had answered with a "no" showing that the "we" having "the mind of Christ" in 1 Corinthians 2:16, were the very "brethren" in 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. Which you here explicitly deny are the saved. You fail to hear and understand the context. 1 Corinthians 2:16 - 1 Corinthians 3:1-5, ". . . ye believed, . . ."

    Furthermore . . . 1 Corinthians 3:23, ". . . And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's. . . ."
     
    #110 37818, Jul 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, do you?
     
    #111 Yeshua1, Jul 3, 2020
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do not. I believe we judge the fruit and determine from what spirit it comes.
     
    #112 JonC, Jul 3, 2020
  13. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    You've shared your... opinion... but you haven't demonstrated in any real way why your opinion is correct and based on the text. You may have alluded to it, but you have yet to delve into the details. So, why do you think that you're right? And... why do you think I'm wrong.

    The Archangel
     
    #113 The Archangel, Jul 4, 2020
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    What if a moderator is the person who is a lying slandering, gossip?
    Is it unkind for someone to observe and identify the ungodly actions,that are not repented of?
    In 1cor5:1-13 Paul commented on people who were "called a brother".
    He does not say they were a brother, as the list of sinful conduct was ongoing, and not repented of.
    He was suggesting they should be removed before their ungodly conduct spread to others.
    No where does Paul suggest identifying their sin was unkind or unchristian.
    The offending person will proclaim they are righteous. For example a liar will say, I never lie.
    When lies are observed he will blame those who observe such a lie.
    Yes Y1, it takes some work to sort out unsaved natural men who live in the realm of sin, from real Christian's who battle against remaining sin.
    We have sadly seen Pastors fall into sin and apostasy.
    When someone first notices the sin, that pastor will try and slander the person who identifies the sinful departure from truth.
     
    #114 Iconoclast, Jul 4, 2020
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I have given explicitly why I think my understanding is right. You fail hear it. And I am evidently not understanding your view as to why you seem to not see my view.

    Do we agree that the "natural man" in 1 Corinthians 2:14 is not yet a belever?

    In summary, from 1 Corinthians 2:16 - 1 Corinthians 3:1-23, ". . . we have the mind of Christ. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. [ I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? . . . ye are Christ's . . ."

    Now that milk are the things of God.

    Reason with me.
     
    #115 37818, Jul 4, 2020
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    we can become spirited and even heated in our discussions here, but no need to go "over the line"
     
    #116 Yeshua1, Jul 4, 2020
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    If this would be a Moderator, then up to whoever is over them !
     
    #117 Yeshua1, Jul 4, 2020
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul is addressing them as those who are saved, but very immature, and acting as if they are not even saved, and wants them to grow up!
     
    #118 Yeshua1, Jul 4, 2020
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What I see a lot is more than heat. I see Calvinists hostile to non-Calvinists and vise versa. I am SBC and we have had heated debates, but we have also had hateful arguments over various topics.

    It is not up to us to correct "Another's servant". But I have seen gossip tolerated if it is against Christians who hold a certain position (I am thinking of those critical of men like John Piper because if his position regarding sign gifts).

    Men do go over the line because we are human. But what then? What if disobedience is the mark of a man?
     
    #119 JonC, Jul 4, 2020
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not speaking of specific issues, Yeshua1. There are no issues between the moderators or staff.

    I am saying that some sins are tolerated and even fostered with online forums. There is a greater "unforgiving spirit", "haughtiness", ect when God has given commands on how Christians are to interact.

    Online forums seem to be a weakness that can become sin for some (particularly the more immature). And unChristian behavior is often tolerated. This is wrong.

    My question is are we looking out for our weaker brother?

    If online forums produce an evil spirit in the member (unforgiving spirit, slanderous, strife, ect.) and is a cause for their sin then to what extent are we sinning by engaging them (by contributing to their sin)?

    My personal solution is to put these people on ignore when possible. It is difficult here as I am on staff, but on other forums I ignore people who are too immature to have an online presence. That way I am not guilty of joining in their sin.

    The "natural man" is a cross we bear, the part of us we have to die to.
     
    #120 JonC, Jul 4, 2020
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