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Featured Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
     
  2. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Um, who said that I or @Barry Johnson believe that a man can lose his salvation?!
     
  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree that one of the signs of God justifying believers ( making one just in His sight by the blood of His Son and by His grace ) is by their faith.
    But do you know of a passage that specifically states that believers are saved because of their faith?

    I'm not asking for a passage that implies that people are saved by faith, I'm asking for passages that declare that faith in Jesus Christ actually leads to one being saved.
     
  4. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    No one. What you questioned was how Arminians glorify themselves, I think. And the joke was that the doctrinal error of them is that they teach one loses salvation by being bad therefore they glorify themselves!
     
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Evidence of what ?
    1¶Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
    3¶Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    4¶By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
    5¶By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
    6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    This Alone disproves what your saying .
     
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Romans 5 proves my point . Notice the two aspects.
    For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
    No sinner was saved by his death ..we are saved BY HIS LIFE !! All humans are reconciled by the cross but we are saved by his life . The reconciliation at the cross did not save you .
    Col 2 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    is what happened. But weve not saved until ....
    ephesians 1 13¶In whom ye also trusted, After that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also After !!!!!!!!!!! that ye Believed !!!!!!!!, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
     
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  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Yes the elect most often are saved people . So those that are Elected by God for service ( believer's in the case of romans 8 ) who can lay a charge against them. Notice it does not say " who shall lay anything to the charge of those God chose to be saved before they existed , it is God who has already Justified them before they believed the Gospel and saved them at the cross before they recieved Jesus "
     
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    How was Abraham Justified ?
    Also Rom 5
    By whom also we have Access by Faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
     
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  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed how you seem to approach the scriptures. Your using ( which is calvinistic usually ) Your using .....
    syllogisms

    noun
    1. an instance of a form of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn from two given or assumed propositions (premises); a common or middle term is present in the two premises but not in the conclusion, which may be invalid (e.g. all dogs are animals; all animals have four legs; therefore all dogs have four legs ).
      • deductive reasoning as distinct from induction.
      • Your arguing from the deductive reasoning and not the inductive method, that's why your not dealing with the text , rather your pointing to a system. Thats why I keep seeing Calvinism in your responses no matter how often you keep saying your not a Cavinist . A good book on this is ' The faith of God's elect by John f parkinson . Its a small booklet and it really helped me see how I was doing exactly what your doing now .
     
    #69 Barry Johnson, Jul 31, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Not if someone loves you. Even scoundrels get a pat on the back from those who love them.
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    So you in your self-righteousness can save yourself? He gives us a new heart instead that does all the things Christians do, by nature. You think if someone acts like a Christian they will turn into one. = pure hypocrisy.
     
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    They received him because they were born of God, not the will of the flesh.
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. = God must save you before you can believe in any true sense.
     
  14. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    You have an uncanny way of turning what I say on its head lol . Every single person has been given the gift of life , breath , a measure of Faith and the ability to respond positively to the Gospel . The bible read without a system telling you what God can and cannot do may affect this ability to read .
     
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    The ' Fruit ' is also Joy , peace , ect
     
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  16. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    context, the Achillies heal of calvinism.
    4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
    5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
    6¶There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
    7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
    8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
    9That was the true Light, which lighteth Every man that cometh into the world.
    10¶He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12But as many as recieved him , to them Gave he ( notice its AFTER they recieve) power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Prove it from scripture. You'll find the context defeats your claims.
     
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    You putting calvinist baggage onto the verse . A child reading this for the first time would simply read . All those that recieve Jesus through believing will get born again . Simple
     
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  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    They received Christ after being born of God. Not by the will of the flesh.
     
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