The Double Election of Scripture

Only elected sinners are the saved out ones by God!

 

Van should write his own systematic theology, would be very interesting!

 

Only way to get to corporate election would be to deny Individual penal substitution, and affirm Jesus died for the plan and not for the individual sinner!

 

God chose us way before we chose Jesus as Lord!

 

No names were called and no attempt to change the subject was made.
He simply and succinctly stated his disagreement with your stated opinion.

 

What bible are you reading?

[2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 NASB]
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word [of mouth] or by letter from us.

• Who did the choosing? God.
• When as the choosing made? In the beginning, which was before we were born.
• What were we chosen for? salvation.
• How was this "salvation" going to be accomplished? through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
• I forget, who was it again that was the "subject" in this sentence that was performing the action described by the "verb"? Oh yeah, GOD!

So 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that God uses the Spirit and faith in the truth as the means of our sanctification to achieve God's "from the beginning" chosen goal of the salvation of we who are "brethren beloved by the Lord".

Jesus said the exact same thing in John 10:

• My Father has given them to Me
• My sheep hear My voice
• I know them
• they follow Me
• I give eternal life to them
• they will never perish
• no one will snatch them out of My hand.

It all starts with the Father and ends with the Son loving those the Father has given Him.

 

That was actually a pretty good summary of Classic Arminianism and the Doctrines of Grace (T.U.L.I.P.).
The issue quickly becomes muddied by the fact that most modern Arminians derive their beliefs from Weslyeanism and the Holiness Movement (the roots of the Methodist Church and the Church of God, among others), so they do not accept the Remonstrances as their starting point. The issue with TULIP is that it is immediately associated with Jon Calvin, whose writings were influential, but were never the source of Reformed Beliefs, and we are Particular Baptists on this board, so we have different roots than our Presbyterian and Dutch Reformed brothers and disagree on much beyond basic sotieriology (the theory of how God saves people).

Just offering positive feedback where I can.

 

You have set yourself up for difficulty right from the start.
The term "Double Election" instantly conjures thoughts of "Double Predestination" which is already a very well defined concept that is both unpopular and radically different from what you want to talk about. On the chance that you think it unreasonable of me to immediately jump from "Double Election" to "Double Predestination", I suggest a small experiment ... Google "Double Election" and see what comes up.

 

We do have spirited and interesting discussions between reformed proper and particular baptists like ourselves!

 

Could you explain how Point #2 differs from "Semi-Pelagianism"?

(Here is a definition of "Semi-Pelagianism" from "Got Questions?")

Both Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism deny the biblical doctrine of total depravity, which says that every part of man—his mind, will, emotions, and flesh—has been corrupted by sin. Being totally depraved, mankind is incapable of coming to God on his own. The unregenerate mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7). We are, by nature, enemies of God (Romans 5:10).

Semi-Pelagianism was promulgated in the fifth century AD by John Cassian and some other church leaders in France. It took a middle-of-the-road approach to depravity; we are depraved, but not totally so. Semi-Pelagianism allows that humanity is tainted by sin, but not to the extent that we cannot cooperate with God’s grace on our own. Semi-Pelagianism is, in essence, partial depravity as opposed to total depravity. We are sinful, but we can still recognize the truth, cooperate with God’s grace, and choose to seek Christ. We need God’s grace to be saved, but we can take the first step toward Christ on our own, apart from grace.​

 

I suppose what @Van is holding is the concept that what begins as fully and unrecoverablely corrupt (totally depraved) is good enough to conjure up saving faith.

He rejects the presentation that God implants saving faith to those He chooses to give hearing ears, a rejection of John 1, “...to THEM gave he the....”

 

True, but I was responding to your post addressing a poster that HAD addressed the topic ... he said he disagreed with you.

I said nothing about corporate election "exclude" individuals, so your response is a non sequitur.

I said nothing of the kind.
Your response is a non sequitur.

I said nothing about election always being corporate, so your response is a non sequitur.

... And yet, Ephesians 1:4 is not corporate and we were once "not a people".