The Double Election of Scripture

[agedman]

Nonsense and the fact you have no scripture that proves your point shows you can only wish it were true.
MB

Can you disprove the statement of @Yeshua1 by presenting Scriptures?

Oh, that’s right! No gentiles are elect in your scheme of rendering Scriptures.

Or have you recanted from that error?

 

[atpollard]

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

What are the "germane" verses that support this claim?

 

[Yeshua1]

Nonsense and the fact you have no scripture that proves your point shows you can only wish it were true.
MB

Paul calls all of the saved the elect in Romans, correct?

 

[MB]

Can you disprove the statement of @Yeshua1 by presenting Scriptures?

Oh, that’s right! No gentiles are elect in your scheme of rendering Scriptures.

Or have you recanted from that error?

No where in scripture is it ever said Gentiles are elect there fore the whole of the Bible is my proof.If it isn't there then it's someone's imagination.
MB

 

[MB]

Mindless twaddle. Sir, you falsely claimed the ELECT doctrine was Calvinism. You did not post a "oops" retraction.
There is no need to go into another topic such as the corporate election of the Old Covenant of Abraham and his believing descendants which did not include Gentiles as a group. Of course several OT saints were Gentiles, such as Ruth.

Try to study the ELECT doctrine and see if it conflicts with your understanding of scripture.

I never said there aren't any Gentile's who are saved. No where in scripture does it ever say we must be elect to be saved.
MB

 

[MB]

Paul calls all of the saved the elect in Romans, correct?

Prove it with scripture.
MB

 

[atpollard]

No where in scripture is it ever said Gentiles are elect there fore the whole of the Bible is my proof.If it isn't there then it's someone's imagination.
MB

• [1Pe 2:9-10 NASB] 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
• [1Pe 1:1-2 NASB] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
• [Tit 1:1-4 NASB] 1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, 3 but at the proper time manifested, [even] His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior, 4 To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
• [2Ti 2:10 NASB] 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory.
• [2Th 2:13 NASB] 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
• [Col 3:12-13 NASB] 12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
• [1Co 1:26-31 NASB] 26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

What is the distinction between an "ELECT" Jew and a "CHOSEN" gentile?

 

[agedman]

No where in scripture is it ever said Gentiles are elect there fore the whole of the Bible is my proof.If it isn't there then it's someone's imagination.
MB

1 Peter 2:

4Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

7Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

9But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
​

“Chosen” is the English translation of the Greek “eklektos”

“eklektos” - elect.

Your need to recant is therefore proven.

 

[agedman]

• [1Pe 2:9-10 NASB] 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
• [1Pe 1:1-2 NASB] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
• [Tit 1:1-4 NASB] 1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, 3 but at the proper time manifested, [even] His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior, 4 To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
• [2Ti 2:10 NASB] 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory.
• [2Th 2:13 NASB] 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
• [Col 3:12-13 NASB] 12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
• [1Co 1:26-31 NASB] 26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

What is the distinction between an "ELECT" Jew and a "CHOSEN" gentile?

none, for there is no distinction in salvation. All chosen (Jew or Gentile) are saved exactly the same way.

Chosen - elect

 

[atpollard]

none, for there is no distinction in salvation. All chosen (Jew or Gentile) are saved exactly the same way.

Chosen - elect

I agree.
I was just curious if MB had something specific in mind or if he was making a distinction without a difference.

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree.
I was just curious if MB had something specific in mind or if he was making a distinction without a difference.

if gentiles are not elect, and are not chosen, then are only Jews to be saved under this thinking?

 

[agedman]

if gentiles are not elect, and are not chosen, then are only Jews to be saved under this thinking?

Because Gentiles are “grafted into” the promise, then I suppose it is true “only Jews” would be the subgrouping.

 

[MB]

• [1Pe 2:9-10 NASB] 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
• [1Pe 1:1-2 NASB] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
• [Tit 1:1-4 NASB] 1 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, 3 but at the proper time manifested, [even] His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior, 4 To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
• [2Ti 2:10 NASB] 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory.
• [2Th 2:13 NASB] 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
• [Col 3:12-13 NASB] 12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
• [1Co 1:26-31 NASB] 26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

What is the distinction between an "ELECT" Jew and a "CHOSEN" gentile?

The word chosen was added to 1Cor 1:26-31.
Col 3:12-13 The Colosians were told to put on as the elect because they were not elect. We also put on the righteousness of Christ because we are not Christ. 2Th 2:13 we are chosen for our faith.
1st Peter is about the Jews who believed.
MB

 

[MB]

if gentiles are not elect, and are not chosen, then are only Jews to be saved under this thinking?

Where does the Bible say only the elect are saved?
Seems to me you Calvinist should be able to prove what you believe to be true.
MB

 

[agedman]

The word chosen was added to 1Cor 1:26-31.
Col 3:12-13 The Colosians were told to put on as the elect because they were not elect. We also put on the righteousness of Christ because we are not Christ. 2Th 2:13 we are chosen for our faith.
1st Peter is about the Jews who believed.
MB

Who added the word chosen in 1 Cor 1?

What makes you think that 1 Peter is about Jews?

If you admit 2th w uses chosen, and it is Gentiles chosen, then the Scripture do indeed use elect for Gentiles, by your own admission of proof.

 

[agedman]

Where does the Bible say only the elect are saved?
Seems to me you Calvinist should be able to prove what you believe to be true.
MB

Where does the Bible say the elect are lost?

And where does it state anyone was saved that wasn’t elect?

 

[MB]

Where does the Bible say the elect are lost?

And where does it state anyone was saved that wasn’t elect?

Gibberish I must have offended you because you can't find any proofs for your claims
MB

 

[agedman]

Gibberish I must have offended you because you can't find any proofs for your claims
MB

I gave proof. You rejected it.

So I ask for your proof.

 

[Yeshua1]

Where does the Bible say the elect are lost?

And where does it state anyone was saved that wasn’t elect?

Paul states that all who are the elect are the saved in Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

Gibberish I must have offended you because you can't find any proofs for your claims
MB

Jesus is the messiah for both the jews and the gentiles, eh?