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The Double Election of Scripture

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AustinC

Well-Known Member
On and on Calvinists deflect, ask off topic questions, and disparage others.

Note the charge, I "made up" corporate election, individual election, faith in Christ, and on and on. Did I make up Romans 9:16 which teaches the lost seek to be saved? Nope. Did I make up the call of the gospel? Nope. Did I even make up the view that Calvinism's TULI are false doctrines? Nope. Did I make up Matthew 23:13? Nope. Did I make up Mark 1:15? Nope 1 Timothy 2:4-6? Nope

On and on Calvinists deflect because their doctrines are unbiblical, unstudied, and absurd.
You are a broken record that keeps skipping. Van, you have been refuted. Now you just clang like a gong.
 

MB

Well-Known Member
I have no idea how this answers my question, so let me ask again:

What is the distinction between an "ELECT" Jew and a "CHOSEN" gentile?
Broken down for clarity:
  • What is an “ELECT” Jew?
  • What is a “CHOSEN” Christian?
  • What is the difference between the two?

A Jew is elect to be a people unto God . A Christian is chosen to Salvation after they believe and have been sanctified.
2Th_2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Where it says "through" this means that there being chosen is based on there Sanctification and belief of the truth. IOW"s No faith Not chosen.
MB
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You are a broken record that keeps skipping. Van, you have been refuted. Now you just clang like a gong.
Notice how all the Calvinist employ the same broken record, then charge me with being repetitive with rebuttals.

Did I "make up" corporate election, individual election, faith in Christ, and on and on. Did I make up Romans 9:16 which teaches the lost seek to be saved? Nope. Did I make up the call of the gospel? Nope. Did I even make up the view that Calvinism's TULI are false doctrines? Nope. Did I make up Matthew 23:13? Nope. Did I make up Mark 1:15? Nope 1 Timothy 2:4-6? Nope

On and on Calvinists deflect because their doctrines are unbiblical, unstudied, and absurd.

TULI:
T refuted by Romans 9:16 - teaching some lost seek salvation from God
U refuted by 2 Thessalonians 2:13 - teaching we are chosen for salvation on the basis of our faith in the truth
L refuted by 1 Timothy 2:4-6 - teaching Christ died for all mankind.
I refuted by Matthew 23:13 - teaching those in the process of entering the kingdom are not being irresistibly compelled.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Notice how all the Calvinist employ the same broken record, then charge me with being repetitive with rebuttals.

Did I "make up" corporate election, individual election, faith in Christ, and on and on. Did I make up Romans 9:16 which teaches the lost seek to be saved? Nope. Did I make up the call of the gospel? Nope. Did I even make up the view that Calvinism's TULI are false doctrines? Nope. Did I make up Matthew 23:13? Nope. Did I make up Mark 1:15? Nope 1 Timothy 2:4-6? Nope

On and on Calvinists deflect because their doctrines are unbiblical, unstudied, and absurd.

TULI:
T refuted by Romans 9:16 - teaching some lost seek salvation from God
U refuted by 2 Thessalonians 2:13 - teaching we are chosen for salvation on the basis of our faith in the truth
L refuted by 1 Timothy 2:4-6 - teaching Christ died for all mankind.
I refuted by Matthew 23:13 - teaching those in the process of entering the kingdom are not being irresistibly compelled.
No NT Corporate Election!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No NT Corporate Election!
Yet another taint so post. See any reference to specific supporting scripture? Neither did I.
This all they have folks, denial of obvious truth.

Did Y1 address 1 Peter 2:10 which precludes Ephesians 1:4 from being an individual election? Nope, just said "taint so."
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I expected "taint so" posts, and I did not expect anyone to actually consider Biblical Election as found in scripture. Here is the biblical doctrine of Election, presented using the acronym ELECT.

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yet another taint so post. See any reference to specific supporting scripture? Neither did I.
This all they have folks, denial of obvious truth.

Did Y1 address 1 Peter 2:10 which precludes Ephesians 1:4 from being an individual election? Nope, just said "taint so."
Refers to gentiles now saved by same Messiah, now part of the Church, nothing to do with corporate election!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I expected "taint so" posts, and I did not expect anyone to actually consider Biblical Election as found in scripture. Here is the biblical doctrine of Election, presented using the acronym ELECT.

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.
Did Jesus die for His Body as a whole, or for individual sinners that were his elect?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Refers to gentiles now saved by same Messiah, now part of the Church, nothing to do with corporate election!
People chosen individually before creation would have always been a "chosen people" yet believers were once "not a people." Thus proves Ephesians 1:4 is corporate and not individual!!!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
People chosen individually before creation would have always been a "chosen people" yet believers were once "not a people." Thus proves Ephesians 1:4 is corporate and not individual!!!
Election does not mean now saved, as they still must receive Jesus as their Lord thru faith!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Did Jesus die for His Body as a whole, or for individual sinners that were his elect?
On and on Calvinists ask the same questions, but never address the many times they receive an answer. Did Christ just die for the elect, those placed into His body? Nope Did I provide scriptural proof that Y1 ignores? Yes. First Christ died as a ransom for all, which refers to all mankind. See 1 Timothy 2:4-6. Did I provide scriptural proof that Christ died for the non-elect? Yes. Did Y1 ignore that proof also? Yes. 1 Peter 2:1 says those heading to destruction have been "bought" by the Christ.

So who is the broken record, skipping the rebuttals and repeating the bogus claims? You got it, the Calvinists.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Election does not mean now saved, as they still must receive Jesus as their Lord thru faith!
Again, Y1 provides no scripture, but makes a claim that scripture says election occurs before belief in the truth. And he knows perfectly well what 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says, that we were chosen individually through or on the basis of faith in the truth.

Calvinism has no actual support from scripture, their many citations either do not actually say what is claimed, or are not germane, and some actually refute Calvinism, such as Romans 9:16.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
On and on Calvinists ask the same questions, but never address the many times they receive an answer. Did Christ just die for the elect, those placed into His body? Nope Did I provide scriptural proof that Y1 ignores? Yes. First Christ died as a ransom for all, which refers to all mankind. See 1 Timothy 2:4-6. Did I provide scriptural proof that Christ died for the non-elect? Yes. Did Y1 ignore that proof also? Yes. 1 Peter 2:1 says those heading to destruction have been "bought" by the Christ.

So who is the broken record, skipping the rebuttals and repeating the bogus claims? You got it, the Calvinists.
Are you holding to Universalism then?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Are you holding to Universalism then?
On and on folks, Calvinists ignore the rebuttals and change the subject, usually by charging their opponent with malfeasance.
Pay no attention to Calvinists who make up false charge after false charge after false charge.

Note I referenced 1 Peter 2:1 and the guy heading for destruction, yet Y1 has the unmitigated gall, the unabashed temerity to charge me with universalism. Folks, Calvinists employ falsehoods to push false doctrine.
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Notice how all the Calvinist employ the same broken record, then charge me with being repetitive with rebuttals.

Did I "make up" corporate election, individual election, faith in Christ, and on and on. Did I make up Romans 9:16 which teaches the lost seek to be saved? Nope. Did I make up the call of the gospel? Nope. Did I even make up the view that Calvinism's TULI are false doctrines? Nope. Did I make up Matthew 23:13? Nope. Did I make up Mark 1:15? Nope 1 Timothy 2:4-6? Nope

On and on Calvinists deflect because their doctrines are unbiblical, unstudied, and absurd.

TULI:
T refuted by Romans 9:16 - teaching some lost seek salvation from God
U refuted by 2 Thessalonians 2:13 - teaching we are chosen for salvation on the basis of our faith in the truth
L refuted by 1 Timothy 2:4-6 - teaching Christ died for all mankind.
I refuted by Matthew 23:13 - teaching those in the process of entering the kingdom are not being irresistibly compelled.
I think you would be wise to defend the gospel rather than your self. Making you defend your self is the Calvinist tactic.
MB
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
From the land of fruit and nuts resides many that feel obligated in conjuring myths.

Some are viewed as Hollywood entertainment, and glittering fashions.

Some as blustering showmanship or carnival barkers.

But, when the lights are extinguished, the emptiness is profound.

If the safety light isn’t left on the stage, someone may just trip over the debris and get hurt.


upload_2020-8-27_10-55-27.jpeg
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Calvinists employ the tactic of filling pages and pages with person attacks, to drive up the pages to bring about thread closure, in order to hide truth. They have been allowed to use this ploy for years and years. Imagine how many pages could be deleted if all the Calvinist smokescreed posts were deleted?

Did I "make up" corporate election, individual election, faith in Christ, and on and on. Did I make up Romans 9:16 which teaches the lost seek to be saved? Nope. Did I make up the call of the gospel? Nope. Did I even make up the view that Calvinism's TULI are false doctrines? Nope. Did I make up Matthew 23:13? Nope. Did I make up Mark 1:15? Nope 1 Timothy 2:4-6? Nope

On and on Calvinists deflect because their doctrines are unbiblical, unstudied, and absurd.

TULI:
T refuted by Romans 9:16 - teaching some lost seek salvation from God
U refuted by 2 Thessalonians 2:13 - teaching we are chosen for salvation on the basis of our faith in the truth
L refuted by 1 Timothy 2:4-6 - teaching Christ died for all mankind.
I refuted by Matthew 23:13 - teaching those in the process of entering the kingdom are not being irresistibly compelled.

The biblical doctrine of Election can be presented using the acronym ELECT.

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call
- Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
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This thread will be closed no sooner than 630 pm edt/330 pm pdt
 
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