Featured Does God Ordain Our Sins?

The opening statement to chapter 3 of the Westminster Confession of Faith, which is entitled, "Of God's Eternal Decree", we read:

"God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass"

It then goes on to say, "yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."

Now, either God has ordained "whatsoever comes to pass", or He has not.

The Reformed theologian, Dr Wayne Grudem, among others, has this to say:

"In Spite of All of the Foregoing Statements, We Have to Come to the Point Where We Confess That We Do Not Understand How It Is That God Can Ordain That We Carry Out Evil Deeds and Yet Hold Us Accountable for Them and Not be Blamed Himself: We can affirm that all of these things are true, because Scripture teaches them. But Scripture does not tell us exactly how God brings this situation about or how it can be that God holds us accountable for what he ordains to come to pass. Here Scripture is silent, and we have to agree with Berkhof that ultimately “the problem of God’s relation to sin remains a mystery.” (Louis Berkhof, Systematic Theology p. 175.”

(Systematic Theology, p.330. 1994, 2000 edition)

On the word "ordain" we are told that it means, "to establish or order by appointment, decree, or law...destine, foreordain" (Websters)

If, as it is claimed by Calvinists/Reformed, that Almighty God "ordains", or "decrees" that us humans "carry out evil deeds", which are sinful, and we do so. Is it morally right, that this same God, Who actually "orders" that we do this, can then hold US accountable for carrying out HIS actions, and punish US??? This teaching is abhorrent, and blashphemous, and goes aganinst the very Holy Nature of the God of the Holy Bible!

So, by the teachings of the Calvinists/Reformed, it is Almighty God, Who "ordains" that we murder, commit adultery, rape, steal, and carry out every form of heinous sins, and though we are doing what God so "orders" that we do, YET, He holds US responsible for these sinful acts, and punishes US for doing what HE has so "ordained"???

This "doctrine" is what the Apostle Paul calls, "doctrines of demons", as its origin is from the pit of hell, and the devil himself!

God does indeed "permit/allow" that we sin, and this is OUR choosing; but can NEVER "ordain" that we do so. There is a huge difference.

 

I can agree that all events must somehow fit into God's Masterplan for the human race. Like the fact that God "used" Judas in the Death of Jesus Christ, for the sins of mankind. However, it cannot be said that God somehow "predetermined" the actions of Judas, which were extermely sinful. I see this in Acts 2:23, "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain". Where the Greek verb ὁρίζω, is used, which is here rendered, "determinate". It should be noted that this Greek word also has the meanings, "to mark out, certain definite terms, within certain limits", etc. This allows for God, Who knows all things, to have been able to have "used/allowed" the actions of Judas to accomplish His will, in the Death of Jesus Christ. We must ensure that at no time that God can be seen as the "cause", or "author" on any sinful actions.

What did you make of Wayne Grudem's comments?

 

"I know of very few ( if any ) "Calvinistic" groups that even come close to teaching this.". Did you read the quotation from Wayne Grudem? He is a leading Reformed theologian. His language does show that God becomes the "author" of our sins, even though he would otherwise deny this. But his own language is very clear to my mind.

As for the Westminster Confession of Faith, they use the word "ordain", which has been suggested might mean something else. I see no justification for watering-down its meaning as been established in English language authorities, like the Oxford English Dictionary, which says it means, "to order or command something; to decide something in advance". Again I stress the point, if, "God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass". And this word is "ordain" retained, there is no escape from the fact, that this does indeed make the God of the Holy Bible, the "cause and author" of our sins! "whatsoever comes to pass", means exactly that, "ALL THINGS".

 

I agree, that there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that teaches, or even suggests/hints, that God in any way is the "author or cause" of any sin. I also agree that just because a person might agree with some or most of the Reformed teachings, that they do not necessarily agree with everything.

 

can you please clarify what you think I have missed? thanks

 

Can you or anyone show me from the use of "ordain" in the English language, where it means that the person who does the "ordaining", is not responsible for their actions? If, as the Confession of Faith states, that God has "ordained" these, then it makes Him their "author". This is what the word has meant from the time it was coined!


Origin of ordain
1250–1300; Middle English ordeinen<Old French ordener<Latin ordināre to order, arrange, appoint. See ordination (Definition of ordain | Dictionary.com)

 

In chapter 6 of this Confession, it states:

"Our first parents, being seduced by the subtlety and temptation of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin, God was pleased, according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory."

It says that God was PLEASED to have ORDERED the fall for His Glory!!!

This is utter blashpemy!!!

To be "pleased" with something is to be "satisfied and content", with it!

The Holy Bible very clearly says, that God was "‛âtsab" by the sins of man, as in Genesis 6:6. Where the Hebrew verb denotes, "hurt, pain, grieve". No where in the entire Bible do we ever read that God was PLEASED to allow the fall of Adam and Eve, which was a very grave SIN!

 

I could be wrong here, but from my understanding of what you have written, it reads that any sins that a Christian comits, because they are included in the Cross/Blood of Jesus, they are automatically forgiven, and there is no need to repent of our sins after our conversion?

 

so are you saying that God actually "approves" of our sins? In which case, they cannot be sins!