Featured When are we SAVED?

Again, I disagree.

To me,
Salvation includes election, predestination, calling, justification and glorification ( Romans 8:28-30 ).
The foreknowing is already done, with all the rest to follow at some point in time.

Therefore, salvation spans eternity past to eternity future...
With God's favor always resting on His elect from the moment that He decided to make them as vessels of mercy ( Romans 9:22-24 ).

I think we are disagreeing on a very fine distinction...

One that's taken a long time for me to see for myself.
I once saw it as you do, and I now see it more and more, the way I'm expressing.
Because of this,
I propose that we agree to leave this "on the back burner to simmer", and to continue our studies in God's word, shall we?


May He bless you with much knowledge and grace, Quantrill,
and may you always remember that He ever lives to make intercession for us and to deliver us from all our trials and tribulations.

 

Austin,

I think that perhaps Barry is not seeing the significance of what spiritual deadness is ( to be dead in trespasses and sins, Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, Ephesians 2:1, Ephesians 2:4, Ephesians 4:17-19 ),
and that only those who realize that they are "sick" ( sinners in need of a Saviour ) are the ones that the Lord has already made alive ( "quickened", Psalms 80:18, Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 15:45 ), from the dead.

The Pharisees thought that they were saved, because they were doing their level best to obey the Lord through the Law...
Christ told them that they were still in their sins...."dead".
Believers realize that they are sick and in need of a physician because they honestly know that they cannot keep the Law in and of themselves, thus driving them to Christ through the "schoolmaster" ( Galatians 3:23-25 ).

The story of the Pharisee and the publican comes to mind, as I see it.

Conclusion:
Believers are literally life from the dead, spiritually ( Romans 6, Ephesians 2:5 ), as Christ is life from the dead, physically.


The distinction is one of semantics ( the meanings of words and how they apply ), and not one of literality...
which I don't think that many who argue this sort of thing take into account.

 

I.ll go with what Jesus says over calvinism everytime.

 

Yes

 

So will all of us. However, you have not actually gone with what Jesus said. This is my contention with you.

 

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Don't worry God will not force you to believe His Word.
MB

 

Come on . We need to be serious here . We don't need Augustines Calvinism. It doesn't do anything. Other than thwart what would otherwise be a maturing in a person's walk . Its a useless theological system that does nothing in Christianity. There is nothing good that has ever come from it .

 

Another fine distinction, my friend...

One in which we might not agree on right now, in totality.
I see the placing in the body of Christ as happening at point of belief, but that salvation occurs in eternity past.
However, I'll still go with your summary...
Saved in the past, saved in the present, and saved in the future.

I though that was well-said.

 

" Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:
2 and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have not faith." ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 ).

Even though you are addressing @AustinC , I felt it needful to address your post:

I encourage you to believe every word, MB.
I've also bolded what I see as the context for the "God has dealt to every man the measure of faith" in this passage...

"Every man that is among you".

 

No you haven't. You claim faith isn't given to you until God regenerates you. Yet you cannot show this in scripture. So you're believing man over God's Word.
MB

 

Eph 1.13 is the answer .

 

no scripture says this.

 

initial salvation ?

 

Eph 2.11 says otherwise .
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

 

Well I can agree we agree in part. OTOH, scriptures says we are saved by grace through (or on the basis of) faith, thus we had our faith declared as righteous by God before election.

 

Isn't it clear from scripture what the answers are?

When they were chosen before the foundation of the world? Nope, that election was not individual but corporate, because we were once not a [chosen] people. 1 Peter 2:10

When they hear the gospel? Nope, the second and third soils of Matthew 13 heard and understood the gospel, yet were not saved.

When they confess? Nope, the individuals of Matthew 7 proclaimed Christ yet remained unsaved for Christ never knew them.

When they were water baptized? Nope, all that happens is a person gets wet. Now when we were baptized into Christ by One Spirit, that is when we were put into Christ and saved.

When they receive the Holy Spirit. Close but no. After we are made firm in Christ, thus saved, we then are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit. The time difference could be immeasurably short.

When they finish the race and are glorified? No and no again. Finish the race refers to when we physically die. No one is ever saved because they physically die. And we (those born anew in Christ) have already been glorified. Romans 8:28-29.

 

This verse is speaking of faith in God. In order to have faith in God we have tp place our faith in Him. Our faith can be placed in anything we want to believe.
You have presented this verse in error because you fail to understand that Faith is a matter of believing in what we believe in and what we believe does not have to Be God. Some actually believe in them selves. Some believe in other gods.
This is our ability;
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We can believe does not mean we will believe in anything. Forced to believe in God is ridiculous. Rom 12:3 doesn't say that at all.
MB

 

So, in Romans 12:3, you think "every" means "all humans everywhere." Is that correct? Yes or no will suffice.