Featured PRE-TRIB? MID-TRIB?

Both pre-trib and mid-or-post-trib are true because there is more than one rapture.
That's the truth that solves it all.

 

There is only one rapture in post-trib so that contradicts your statement.

 

I have no idea what you mean.

 

As does A Mil!

 

Rapture in that view is the Second Coming!

 

Okay, I will try. The Blessed Hope is the return of Jesus Christ to the earth. Post-Tribbers believe that they will go through all seven years of the Tribulation. They will be on the run from the Anti-Christ, whose kingdom will be the feet of the statue, iron mixed with clay, so there is some weakness there, unlike Rome which was pure iron. The Blessed Hope occurs at the end of the Tribulation and it is the only time that Jesus returns.

Since you live in Canada, let me link a Canadian pastor, Oswald Smith, who left dispensationalism about a century ago, as he explains it better than I by far. Here is his concluding paragraph after his explanation:

My Final Appeal Beloved, the shadows are darkening. The day is drawing to a close. It is now Saturday night in the history of the Church. The times of the Gentiles have almost run their course. Events are fast shaping for the end. The Antichrist will soon be here. One fact and one only is important – Christ is coming. Of that there can be no doubt. One question and one only is vital – Are we ready? We may differ on minor details of prophecy. We may disagree as to the time of His Appearing. We may not see eye to eye regarding the order of prophetic events. But one thing is certain – He is coming. We will be with Him. The Millennium is at hand and soon now we shall know all. Therefore, let us love one another sincerely and labour together “till He Come”. If I am mistaken I will know it then. Hence, let us agree to disagree agreeably. God knows our hearts. He knows that we love Him and that is all that really matters. If I love Him and you love Him, we will love each other. Soon the day will break and all the shadows flee away. Meanwhile I am “looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus 2 :13).

The Rapture – Oswald J Smith | Trumpet Sounds

 

I understand the post-tribulation position. I just don't understand what your reply was correcting.
That there is a tribulation rapture is undeniable.
That there is also a pre-tribulation rapture of the church is equally undeniable.
Both are true and witnessed by verses.

As for dispensationalism, I was born worlds away from it, but I thank God today for it as it has cleared up so many Bible "contradictions" for me and strengthened my faith in the word of God greatly.
I've listened to my share of guys who left dispensationalism too.

 

Yes, but post-tribulation doctrine does not agree that there is a rapture before the tribulation. You may call it undeniable, but others call it unscriptural.

If you have time, please read Canadian Smith.

 

It's still in the dispensationalism camp.

 

It's generally not a good idea to try connect current events to Bible prophesy. Do so mostly creates false teaching. It's better to wake up and seek to fulfill the Great Commission. Let today be today and don't worry about tomorrow.

 

"But now the next meeting was coming. What was I to say? I need not point out that there is no pretribulation Rapture in Matthew 24. The Second Coming is unmistakably placed “immediately after the Tribulation” (verse 29), and I was forced to the conclusion that if the Rapture was to be “before” the Tribulation, the Lord Jesus Christ would certainly have given some hint of it at least. He was dealing with the End-Time of the Age. It is unthinkable that He would have spoken so minutely of the Tribulation without stating that the Church would escape. Instead, He purposely led His hearers to the belief that His followers would be in it. Hence, I was staggered, nor could I honestly defend my previous position."

Any dispensationalist knows that the church and the church age were still a mystery at this point - hence their absence in the passage. That he doesn't even address that foundational principle of dispensationalism tells me he was not much of a dispensationalist, which is why he was so shocked by Matthew 24 in the first place.

"And that the Resurrection is always placed at the time of the sounding of the Last Trump (1 Cor. 15:51-54). This Trump, without doubt, closes the Tribulation."

This is Bible 101. The last trump is not the last trumpet. They're 2 different words with 2 different meanings,
A trump is a sound emitted by a trumpet.
This has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet of Revelation 10 & 11.

1. The 1st trump awakens the dead.
2. The 2nd-and-last trump changes the living.

That's precisely the order laid out, with corresponding thoughts, in 1Corinthians 15.
Paul says he was revealing a mystery at this point precisely because Christ had not spoken of it in the gospels since - and watch the beautiful match - the church itself was still a mystery then, and therefore so was its own rapture.

I won't read more because there are post-tribbers who do a far more convincing job of "dismantling" the pre-trib rapture.

 

Apparently not if you still believe it. It is almost like theistic evolution or old earth advocates to try to change the mind of a dispensationalist. So, no, once again, post-tribbers do not agree with you that there are 2 raptures. It is just not in Scripture. However, I will wave good-bye to you when you leave and then I will huddle with the preterists. Nothing personal, but I will be glad to see the dispensationalists go.

 

A) At least I read a good bit and took time to answer. That's more than what many do on either side, no?
B) The argument could equally be leveled that you won't change your mind either.
C) You didn't address the counters presented.
D) I believe in the gap but I am a young-earth advocate, like literally all of my friends who believe in the gap. We all reject the notion that earth has been here for billions or even millions of years.

I know they don't. I never made the claim they do. I still don't quite understand what it is that we're arguing about here.

Well, ok

 

No, it is not. It is about eschatology but it contradicts dispensationalism.

 

I thought you said that there are 2 raptures and everyone believed that. I don't.

After 30 years of debating eschatology, I decided that dispensationalism is emotional not logical. So I now just tell dispensationalists that they will be raptured before the Tribulation but people who don't believe in dispensationalism will not be. Doesn't that make sense to you? Nothing personal but you can see that it is like telling old earthers that they probably believed in an old earth for millions and millions of years. Or telling an evolutionists that after seeing them maybe I am not so sure that evolution is false. So that is why I will wave good-bye because you will have won the debate.

 

What I said was:

So, no, I did not say:

And so

Speaking of "emotion", that may have been why you misread what I wrote and debated something for a number of posts which I wasn't even arguing

 

Please, George, I have been responding to this statement:

Both pre-trib and mid-or-post-trib are true because there is more than one rapture.

Mid-trib and post-trib are not the same thing, as you know. Pre-trib and mid-trib belong to dispensationalism. Post-trib is the historic Christian position worldwide as dispensationalism is only a couple of hundred years old and is mostly found in Evangelical and Fundamentalists churches. Post-trib certainly does not believe that there is more than one rapture. You are wrong to classify it with the other two and it is surprising that you admit that dispensationalism teaches two raptures as many Americans will not admit that. I think that you are saying that dispensationalism believes in a rapture at the beginning of the seven years or at the end of 3 1/2 years and then another third coming at the end of the seven years. Anyway, post-tribbers do not believe that the Blessed Hope occurs before the end of the tribulation and therefore it is not part of dispensationalism.

 

We are talking past each other here.

 

In many ways,

Revelation is the most practical book
of the entire New Testament
since it is specifically written to Christians

who live in the post-apostolic age.

...
This means that the symbols and visions we find here

are meant for us.

Therefore, we must make every effort to interpret them correctly

and apply them to our present context.

9.1.1a “THE TIME IS NEAR” Pt. 1
in Section 1 of REVELATION Chapter 1:1 – 3:22 /
“JESUS CHRIST in the MIDST of the LAMP-STANDS.”

 

I was raised up strong Dispy, held to pretrib and second coming view, but once moved towards holding to Covenant theology. still kept premil view, but had to let pretrib rapture go!