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Featured Is God Insincere in His Gospel Message?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 13, 2020.

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  1. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Incorrect. All of the world will not believe, or none would be lost. Scripture is clear on the reality of Hell and of the many and the few.

    Whosoever believes is everyone that believes. No more and no less.
     
    #41 atpollard, Oct 14, 2020
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Who says?
    Many have lived and died without ever hearing the gospel.
     
    #42 Iconoclast, Oct 14, 2020
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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Some times the word preached leads to salvation,sometimes damnation.
     
    #43 Iconoclast, Oct 14, 2020
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  4. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Another passage to consider in this regard:

    Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    This passage plainly shows that God will at that point openly display that He wants everyone on the earth at that time to hear His everlasting gospel!
     
    #44 Scripture More Accurately, Oct 14, 2020
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said no such thing.
     
    #45 37818, Oct 14, 2020
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    thats what you are some others would try to have us beleive. The Greek "kosmos" is defined by leading Greek works as;

    J H Thayer:

    “the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race. Jn. i.10, 29, iii.16sq”

    W F Arndt and F W Gingrich:

    “of all mankind, but especially of believers as objects of God’s love”

    J Parkhurst:

    “the world, i.e., the whole race of mankind, both believers and unbelievers, both good and bad.”

    E Robinson:

    “the world for the inhabitants of the earth, men, mankind. John.1.29, 3:16”

    Hermann Cremer:

    “It denotes the ordered entirety of God’s creation, humanity itself”

    The NIV Theological Dictionary of New Testament Words:

    “in Jn. kosmos almost always denotes the world of humans, esp. the world of sinful humanity that opposes God, resists the redeeming work of the Son, does not believe in Him”

    G Kittel and G Friedrich:

    “All the meanings of kosmos come together in the usage of the Fourth Gospel. Not just the Prologue uses kosmos for the world in the sense of the universe”

    W E Vine:

    “the human race, mankind”

    A T Robertson:

    The world (ton kosmon). The whole cosmos of men, including Gentiles, the whole human race. This universal aspect of God's love appears also in 2Co 5:19; Rom 5:8”

    M Vincent:

    “The sum-total of humanity in the world; the human race”

    Even the Reformed theologian, Robert Dabney says:

    "In Jno. iii; 16 make 'the world' which Christ loved, to mean 'the elect world'; and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe and perish"

    And, John Calvin, whose name many use by calling themselves, "Calvinists", says;

    "That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."


    et gloria Dei est
     
    #46 SavedByGrace, Oct 15, 2020
  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Charles Spurgeon hit the nail on the head with his sermon on John 3:16 when he pointed out the extent of God's love "For God so loved the world" ... defining God as a God who does not delight in the death of anyone ... and the boundaries of God's grace "that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES shall not perish". Whosoever believes will, by definition, include all believers and exclude all unbelievers. So John 3:16 teaches in one verse that God loves all and saves believers. It does not teach that God loves only believers, nor does it teach that God saves all.
     
    #47 atpollard, Oct 15, 2020
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee." Jeremiah 31:3

    Correct.

    ...

    "The world", here, means, "the Gentile world, in addition to The Jews",
    and, specifically, "The Elect of The Gentile world, in addition to, the Elect of The Jews".
     
    #48 Alan Gross, Oct 15, 2020
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The, "whosoever believes", and "the world", and The Elect are the same individual souls.

    "The world" often refers to, "the Gentiles", in Sacred and other writings, and is common to The Bible in such Passages.

    "love not the world" doesn't Teach that God Loves the world,
    or that "God so Loved the entire race of mankind", any more than John 3:16 does.

    It isn't in there and can't be written in.
     
    #49 Alan Gross, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "love not the world" doesn't Teach that God Loves the world.
     
    #50 Alan Gross, Oct 15, 2020
  11. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. The evidence exists and is a linguistic possibility, but it is stretching the definition a bit. Most linguists fall on the side of "the world" meaning "everyone" or "mankind" ... which is not "every person without exception", but is a lot closer than just the 'elect'.

    I think of "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling." [Matthew 23:37 NASB] and imagine God's attitude towards the unbelievers. Yes they are condemned and will be destroyed, but it brings God no pleasure to do so. God did love them.
     
    #51 atpollard, Oct 15, 2020
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    "love not the world" was a command for us and it was not a command that we should hate the unsaved, it was a command to not live as slaves to sin.
     
    #52 atpollard, Oct 15, 2020
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    that is your personal opinon, which is against what even the Greek experts say! I rest my case, typical Calvinistic response!
     
    #53 SavedByGrace, Oct 15, 2020
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was saying that those sinners were fulfilling the prophecies of Isaiah regarding how they would reject the Messiah!
     
    #54 Yeshua1, Oct 15, 2020
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Also, that we as saved now do not give into the world's ways of acting and thinking!
     
    #55 Yeshua1, Oct 15, 2020
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he is right on His understanding of those words and their meanings in context!
     
    #56 Yeshua1, Oct 15, 2020
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think that he is saying here that God defines the world and all as being those who are the elect!
     
    #57 Yeshua1, Oct 15, 2020
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  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    not according to the text or context. Calvin got this right
     
    #58 SavedByGrace, Oct 15, 2020
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    #59 Yeshua1, Oct 15, 2020
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Calvin held to limited atonement, as he saw the Cross only benefitting the Elect!
     
    #60 Yeshua1, Oct 15, 2020
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