Featured Irressistible Grace #2

Romans 11:17

 

Its our Job to study.

 

It of course includes both unbelieving Israel and believers in Christ . But ' election is not ABOUT being saved . Its about service , purpose and calling . Never, not once , not even slightly about ' Chosen to be saved ' . This is gnostic concepts brought into christianity from Augustine ,who was a manachian gnostic prior to his Christian profession. A great study on this is by Dr Ken Wilson ' https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/108280035X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_btf_t1_COhLFbWHZP0RK

 

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
We are a wild olive tree grafted in among them. I know you believe this makes you elect but the scripture never says that you are now elect. In real life the graft never looses it's own identity Grafts are always grafts and cannot produce a different fruit just because it is grafted to another root. I've seen trees on the internet with multiple kinds of fruit bearing on the same tree. You can look it up and see for your self.
MB

 

If you had bothered to read the question that I was answering, and the scripture with which I had answered the question that was being asked ... you would not have wasted both of our time responding with this non sequitur.

Since you do not read what is written, there is little point in bothering to post a scriptural response that you will simply use as another opportunity to “speak without listening” and refute points that I am not making.

Enjoy your blogging.

 

Feel free to continue to bare bad fruit even grafted into the True Vine if you think that you can, but I believe that being grafted into the True Vine makes me a new creature in Christ and as Romans 11 goes on to explain a true child of Abraham.

I think you are the one fighting against scripture to make it say what your theology wants it to say ... but that is your right and only God can illuminate TRUTH for either of us. So I disagree with your opinion, but will fight to defend your right to believe it ... just don’t expect me to agree.

Shalom (peace and well being).

 

# 98 answered you well anyway.

 

Here is your problem you have not shown sufficient evidence that you are elect no matter what you believe. Un less you can where God elected you it's hog wash.
MB

 

I don't remember anything about that.

 

What a delightful brittle thread.
How many times are Christians referred to in the scriptures as “the elect”?


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

And elect means chosen of God for salvation
Those who are with Christ are spoken of like this
Revelation 17:14
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

 

Elect = service and purpose . Never ' to be saved '

 

That is your myth. What scripture states is:

What then shall we say to these things? If God [is] for us, who [is] against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written,
"FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. [Romans 8:31-39 NASB]
​

Sure looks to me like the “elect” are “saved”.

 

It just so happens that most often the elect ' are saved.

 

I do not deny scripture the passages says what it clearly says. At the same time the word chosen is used in the verse not the word elect The elect are Jews the chosen is for a whole different set of circumstances you obviously do not understand. This is why both terms are different in meaning. Besides God never even once called a Gentile elect in scripture.
MB

 

Try looking in the mirror on the bad fruit thing.
MB

 

Its precisely talking about those who are saved. You can even scribble "God's saved". That doesn't mean every time you see the word "elect" it means "chosen on to salvation" that is Chosen to BE saved.

I can find you a passage where it it means "chosen on to salvation" the point is it not here and its not EVERY TIME.

You can be chosen and elect to scoop horse droppings.

This word "chosen" has been over-embellished as some magic word just as other words like Faith and Prayer, just because you only commonly hear them in church.

My elect bottle of water is not a bottle of water assumed to be chosen to be saved in heaven.


That word choose means elect and its simple as that. We are speaking English. The meaning is what it is no matter how much vocabulary gymnastics you do.

If God CHOOSES, picks, elects, someone to go to hell. Tada they are ELECT, Elect and chosen to go to hell.

In Calvinism that WORD has been drilled to trigger ONE MEANING above all, that is YOUR FLAW.


ITs like if you were drilled as a child to believe every time they mention "TRIBULATION" OH thats the magical winged holy donkey! You see the meanings were BUILT outside of the scriptures

Every time the word shows up "tribulation" OH you see the magical holy donkey will hee-haw see look it says TRIBULATION will come.

That is why every time scriptures mentions chosen or ELECT we ask CHOSEN for what? Elect for WHAT?

 

good opening for 2 Thessalonians 2 then, referring to the tribulation of the wicked versus the elect whom God has chosen for salvation. That is what the wicked do, they do not receive the love of the truth. Only those God has chosen for salvation believe the truth. So God sends delusions on the wicked to make them believe the LIE to bring about their complete destruction. They will die without mercy.

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

 

Also 1 Thessalonians 1:4;
In Romans 11:13 Paul is speaking to Gentile believers, and he had just told them in Romans 8:31-34 ( "us", so the ones being spoken to in the letter are the same "us" in chapter 1 as they are in chapter 8 and chapter 11 )...

" What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. "

Add in :
Luke 18:6
Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ( "ordained" = "appointed" = "chosen" = "elected" )
Colossians 1:1-27 ( Gentiles ).
Matthew 24:22.
Mark 13:22.
and many more.

Lastly, we know that Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter was the apostle to the Jews ( Galatians 1:15-16, Galatians 2:9, Acts of the Apostles 22:21, Romans 15:18-19 ).

 

"So God sends delusions on the wicked to make them believe the LIE to bring about their complete destruction. They will die without mercy."

Why? From the Calvinist perspective Why would God have to Blindfold a Dead Man? If God has to use delusion are they not capable? If you are totally incapable of believing the truth why would delusion be necessary?

No. We read clearly why. The delusion is a punishment ON the one capable. "because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

They did not love the truth. What is the TRUTH? ---->THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED. The sanctification comes in the truth--->through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.


This again points that THE TRUTH was meant to SAVE THEM and God had their salvation in mind.

What is the LIE? Look at it. --->they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

That is a heavy implication that it was offered. That is a heavy implication that "THEY MIGHT BE SAVED" Is what they chose not to believe.