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The eternal subordination of the Word.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Oct 30, 2020.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The equality has to do with deity where there is never any subordination.
     
    #61 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    so when did Jesus cease to be Almighty God?
     
    #62 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So are you claiming that the "man" is God? John 20:17, ". . . I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. . . ."
     
    #63 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    and, God the Father addresses Jesus Christ, "προς δε τον υιον ο θρονος σου ο θεος εις τον αιωνα του αιωνος" Hebrews 1:8

    "But unto the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever"
     
    #64 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Not as the man, but as the Person being the Son of God. God calling His Son God. And after His Son completes this task given to Him by God His Father, ". . . the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." -- 1 Corinthians 15:28. Continuing His role of eternal submission.
     
    #65 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    are you "Baptist" or really a JW?
     
    #66 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    this is about Jesus earthly Ministry and has nothing to do with His eternal Kingdom.

    Revelation 11:15 is very clear about Jesus Kingdom and Rule:

    "The kingdoms of the world have become our Lord's and his Christ’s and He shall Reign for ever and ever."

    The Greek is very important here, the Greek verb, βασιλευσει, is in the singular number, which can either mean, Jesus shall Reign for ever and ever"; or, "Our Lord", which is "The Father", Reigns jointly with Jesus Christ. In any case, Jesus' Kingdom and Reign is Eternal, and co-equal with the Father!
     
    #67 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It is the Baptist teaching that the Word was both "with the God" and "was God." Did my OP really sound like JW taaching to you?
     
    #68 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    your replies, like that in #65, keep on showing that you do not accept that Jesus Christ is FULLY God, in EXACTLY the SAME way and the Father and Holy Spirit?
     
    #69 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In the New Heaven and Earth. 1 Corinthians 15:26-28 post the Jugement Revelation 20:13. So your interpation is wrong about 1 Corinthians 15:28. The full deity of the Son of God never ceases even as the Son in His subordination never ceases. The deity never has any subordination.
     
    #70 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    #71 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 11:15 is for Revelation 20:4-10. After the Judgement Revelation 20:11-15 we have this, Revelation 21:27, ". . . And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. . . ."
     
    #72 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    They as the One God yes, never any subordination. As Persons there was always a subordination, which you seem not to be able understand.




    .
     
    #73 37818, Oct 31, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 11:15, ". . . The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. . . ." Here "the Lord" and "his Christ" are two different Persons.
     
    #74 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The subject of post #65 was about God the Father calling His Son God. You are the one who brought up Hebrews 1:8.
     
    #75 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree that how He was God did not change in terms of his being, His relationship with the Father, and His relationship in the Trinity.
     
    #76 JonC, Oct 31, 2020
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  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I’ll disagree. Functional subordination does not mean inequality.

    peace to you
     
    #77 canadyjd, Oct 31, 2020
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  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    do you know what the word "sunordination" means? Regardless of what it is called, like Functional, its core meaning never changes! This is all speculation, as no Scripture teaches it! I am done with this, as there are some who cannot grasp this.
     
    #78 SavedByGrace, Oct 31, 2020
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    To restate my understanding of the eternal subordination. The eternal subordination has to do with the Word's relationship as a Person with God. The Word being the one and the Same God there is never any subordination. The Word has always been both a distinct Person from God being "with the God" and "was God" being one and the same God, so being would be without any kind of subordination being God. The incarnation was a change, John 1:14, not as God but how the Word was "with the God." This is important in understanding the two natures of the Son of God and Him being one Person.
     
    #79 37818, Oct 31, 2020
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    'Functional subordination' means, 'Jesus is The Son, by Office, within The Triune Godhead.
     
    #80 Alan Gross, Nov 1, 2020
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