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The eternal subordination of the Word.

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SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

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37818 said:
So are you claiming that the "man" is God? John 20:17, ". . . I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. . . ."
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and, God the Father addresses Jesus Christ, "προς δε τον υιον ο θρονος σου ο θεος εις τον αιωνα του αιωνος" Hebrews 1:8

"But unto the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever"
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
and, God the Father addresses Jesus Christ, "προς δε τον υιον ο θρονος σου ο θεος εις τον αιωνα του αιωνος" Hebrews 1:8

"But unto the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever"
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Not as the man, but as the Person being the Son of God. God calling His Son God. And after His Son completes this task given to Him by God His Father, ". . . the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." -- 1 Corinthians 15:28. Continuing His role of eternal submission.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Not as the man, but as the Person being the Son of God. God calling His Son God. And after His Son completes this task given to Him by God His Father, ". . . the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." -- 1 Corinthians 15:28. Continuing His role of eternal submission.
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are you "Baptist" or really a JW?
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
1 Corinthians 15:28. Continuing His role of eternal submission.
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this is about Jesus earthly Ministry and has nothing to do with His eternal Kingdom.

Revelation 11:15 is very clear about Jesus Kingdom and Rule:

"The kingdoms of the world have become our Lord's and his Christ’s and He shall Reign for ever and ever."

The Greek is very important here, the Greek verb, βασιλευσει, is in the singular number, which can either mean, Jesus shall Reign for ever and ever"; or, "Our Lord", which is "The Father", Reigns jointly with Jesus Christ. In any case, Jesus' Kingdom and Reign is Eternal, and co-equal with the Father!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
It is the Baptist teaching that the Word was both "with the God" and "was God." Did my OP really sound like JW taaching to you?
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your replies, like that in #65, keep on showing that you do not accept that Jesus Christ is FULLY God, in EXACTLY the SAME way and the Father and Holy Spirit?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
this is about Jesus earthly Ministry and has nothing to do with His eternal Kingdom.

Revelation 11:15 is very clear about Jesus Kingdom and Rule:

"The kingdoms of the world have become our Lord's and his Christ’s and He shall Reign for ever and ever."

The Greek is very important here, the Greek verb, βασιλευσει, is in the singular number, which can either mean, Jesus shall Reign for ever and ever"; or, "Our Lord", which is "The Father", Reigns jointly with Jesus Christ. In any case, Jesus' Kingdom and Reign is Eternal, and co-equal with the Father!
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In the New Heaven and Earth. 1 Corinthians 15:26-28 post the Jugement Revelation 20:13. So your interpation is wrong about 1 Corinthians 15:28. The full deity of the Son of God never ceases even as the Son in His subordination never ceases. The deity never has any subordination.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
this is about Jesus earthly Ministry and has nothing to do with His eternal Kingdom.

Revelation 11:15 is very clear about Jesus Kingdom and Rule:

"The kingdoms of the world have become our Lord's and his Christ’s and He shall Reign for ever and ever."

The Greek is very important here, the Greek verb, βασιλευσει, is in the singular number, which can either mean, Jesus shall Reign for ever and ever"; or, "Our Lord", which is "The Father", Reigns jointly with Jesus Christ. In any case, Jesus' Kingdom and Reign is Eternal, and co-equal with the Father!
Click to expand...
Revelation 11:15 is for Revelation 20:4-10. After the Judgement Revelation 20:11-15 we have this, Revelation 21:27, ". . . And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. . . ."
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
your replies, like that in #65, keep on showing that you do not accept that Jesus Christ is FULLY God, in EXACTLY the SAME way and the Father and Holy Spirit?
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They as the One God yes, never any subordination. As Persons there was always a subordination, which you seem not to be able understand.




.
 
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37818

37818

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
your replies, like that in #65, keep on showing that you do not accept that Jesus Christ is FULLY God, in EXACTLY the SAME way and the Father and Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...
37818 said:
Not as the man, but as the Person being the Son of God. God calling His Son God. And after His Son completes this task given to Him by God His Father, ". . . the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." -- 1 Corinthians 15:28. Continuing His role of eternal submission.
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The subject of post #65 was about God the Father calling His Son God. You are the one who brought up Hebrews 1:8.
37818 said:
Now what is not at issue and not being denied, is that the Word was God. Which is to be understood to mean that the Word to be God is eternally the uncreated God, never subotdinate in being God.
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JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
37818 said:
He did in my view as how he was eternaly "with the God." But as to how He "was God" in my view cannot have changed, John 1:9, Hebrews 1:3 and John 3:13 KJV.
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I agree that how He was God did not change in terms of his being, His relationship with the Father, and His relationship in the Trinity.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
I’ll disagree. Functional subordination does not mean inequality.

peace to you
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do you know what the word "sunordination" means? Regardless of what it is called, like Functional, its core meaning never changes! This is all speculation, as no Scripture teaches it! I am done with this, as there are some who cannot grasp this.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
To restate my understanding of the eternal subordination. The eternal subordination has to do with the Word's relationship as a Person with God. The Word being the one and the Same God there is never any subordination. The Word has always been both a distinct Person from God being "with the God" and "was God" being one and the same God, so being would be without any kind of subordination being God. The incarnation was a change, John 1:14, not as God but how the Word was "with the God." This is important in understanding the two natures of the Son of God and Him being one Person.
 
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