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Featured Spiritual Life and Spiritual Death

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus and Adam only humans to never had a sin nature at the start, as in that pristine state, Adam did not need the Messiah nor the Holy Spirit until he fell!
     
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Define "sin nature".
     
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clarifying. I have no desire to argue over how many angels can stand on the head of a pin. I am out.
     
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I never intended to argue, just to look at differences.

    I've found that many disagreements are simply matters of definition. This is especially true when trying to answer questions that are not answered in the Bible using terms that are not in the Bible.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The part of us that desires to be our own God, to obey none but ourselves, our desires, our own will!
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So by "nature" you mean "will"?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    rit, the
    No, more like our soul/spirit, the part of us that can commune with God, but instead is in rebellion against His ways!
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not exactly sure I understand what you mean.

    You said spiritual life meant in a right relationship with God.

    But our "nature" is our "spirit", which is either un-fallen or fallen?
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The following is an important side issue here.
    What is not commonly nor correctly understood is how Adam's sin caused the whole hunan race to have Adam's fallen nature. The mere act of disobediance is not what is inherited. It is the divine knowledge of good and evil, Genesis 3:22. And the why that knowledge causes the sinful nature which is the reasom the divine separation. Genesis 3:11, ". . . Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"
     
    #29 37818, Nov 5, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The immaterial aspect of us is born dormant and dead, affected by the Fall, and that is reborn by the Holy Spirit Himself once saved!
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I believe Adam was man (a representative of all mankind). Any man placed in his place (except Christ) would have done the same.
     
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  12. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    The habitual inclination to love sin and to willfully commit it...naturally.;)
    For example:

    " Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil." ( Jeremiah 13:23 ).
     
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  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I kinda agree. I still like "flesh" and "spirit" better as those are the categories scripture offers (less work to just use what's there, I guess).

    Then we get a human nature (perhaps "will") inclined to the flesh vs a spiritual nature inclined to the Spirit.
     
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @Dave G ,

    A little off topic but have you ever read Desiring God by John Piper?

    He makes a good case about how our desires change upon rebirth. It is one of my favorite books and has impacted my life.
     
  15. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Prior to Jesus Christ being raised out of the dead, no more to die nor no more to return to corruption, was there any life relative to man that could be construed as spiritual life?

    so also it hath been written, 'The first man Adam became a living soul,' the last Adam into spirit a life-giving, but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual. 1 Cor 15:45,46
     
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  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: James 1:14,15

    Adam: The lust came before the sin. From whence cometh lust? What caused it to conceive and bring forth sin?

    Nature?

    Not sure I know.
     
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  17. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I will go so far to say I believe the First Adam, the living soul, did what he was created for? The conduit unto the last Adam, the redeemer.

    having known that, not with corruptible things -- silver or gold -- were ye redeemed from your foolish behaviour delivered by fathers, (Literally, of father tradition ) father singular, Adam.
     
  18. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    No I have not.

    I've read most of the "Sovereignty of God" by A.W. Pink, some of "The Obedience of a Christian Man" by William Tyndale, and many other books...
    but it's been a while since I did anything other than read the Bible itself.
    I'm sure that he does.;)

    However,
    While I'm familiar with John Piper ( and other prominent and so-called "Calvinists", as well as others in the public eye these days ) I'm uncomfortable with how much of a "cult following" that writers who pen Christian books have been getting the past 100 years or so.
    In fact, I'm reminded a bit of 1 Corinthians 3:1-9 when I think on the subject.

    That's one of the reasons why I tend to avoid mentioning teachers and preachers in my posts ( or in conversation with other believers ) anymore,
    because of the tendency of some ( especially younger believers ), to get carried away with ministers and what they have to say, instead of pursuing what has become the central focus for me the past 20 years or so...

    God's word.

    That doesn't mean that I don't read some of them, on occasion, and agree with their conclusions...
    But it does mean that I've made a conscious choice to place Christian writers way out on the "back burner", and the Bible alone on the front.:)
     
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Good point. I was thinking today (I do not do it often :() that Scripture does not mention any pastors by name in the Bible (that I can think of off hand, anyway).
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Good point. Christ was tempted by the flesh (in all points as we are) yet without sin. He prayed "if possible let this cup pass, but not My will but Yours".
     
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