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The Gospel of the Kingdom

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Yeshua1

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JonC said:
They are the same gospel. Jesus' teachings apply even to the church age. Peter and Paul were not heretics.

Jesus preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God (the exact same gospel that the Apostles proclaimed). This is not a "works based" gospel at all (it never was). What the first century Jews did not understand is that God's Kingdom is spiritual (it is not a geo-political kingdom but rather a Kingdom into which one must be spiritually born).

There is ONLY ONE gospel and this is the gospel of the Kingdom of God that the Old Testament foreshadowed, creation longed for, the angels announced, Jesus proclaimed, the Apostles preached, and Christians enter.
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The Gospel itself is Pauline Justification!
 
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Yeshua1

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JonC said:
Yes, but not "exalts over the gospel of the Kingdom of God".

Have you ever considered Romans 28:29 as it relates beyond predestination? The point is not that we are foreknowledge and predestined but TO WHAT WE ARE PREDESTINED.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

This is the gospel of the Kingdom of God - not ONLY that we are saved but what exactly this salvation means. It is not just escapingwrath but even more about entering God's Kingdom.

No, but your question highlights what I am saying.

What I am saying is Paul does not always use "baptism" to refer to "water baptism" (in fact, most of the time he uses "baptism" to mean more than just "water baptism").

Have you ever considered that we are saved for something more than just escaping the wrath to come?

Consider what @Iconoclast posted about the Cross.
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What Does Justification Have to do with the Gospel? by Sinclair Ferguson
 
JonC

JonC

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Yeshua1 said:
The Gospel itself is Pauline Justification!
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No. The gospel is what the Bible says the gospel is. Jesus proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom of God.

Justification (or righteousness) is one doctrine involved in the work of Christ. Others include sanctification, the nature of the "atonement", the kenosis, the Resurrection, sacrificial obedience, and the like. But these are things about the gospel.

Why do you even desire to reduce the gospel down to the Doctrine of Justification anyway?
 
JonC

JonC

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Yeshua1 said:
What Does Justification Have to do with the Gospel? by Sinclair Ferguson
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NT Wright is correct in the article. Justification by faith is not what Paul means by the gospel (in the Pauline epistles).

In Romans Paul uses the word that we use for evangelism (to proclaim) as the word for the gospel. This is the proclamation of Christ - that is the gospel that Jesus taught (Jesus proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom).

Justification is very important. It is deals with how men enter into this Kingdom. But Paul was not saying that the Doctrine of Justification is the power of God unto salvation. Justification (or Righteousness) is not the gospel itself.

You are wrong.
 
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Brightfame52

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kyredneck said:
Yes.
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Okay then we agree on that, that is good. The reason why that is important is because it shows that sinners Christ died for, even as unbelieving enemies, are not under Gods condemnation and wrath as unbelieving enemies as these Jn 3:18,36. What you think about that ? Can they be reconciled to God legally by Christs death, and still be condemned, under wrath at the same time ?
 
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Yeshua1

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JonC said:
No. The gospel is what the Bible says the gospel is. Jesus proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom of God.

Justification (or righteousness) is one doctrine involved in the work of Christ. Others include sanctification, the nature of the "atonement", the kenosis, the Resurrection, sacrificial obedience, and the like. But these are things about the gospel.

Why do you even desire to reduce the gospel down to the Doctrine of Justification anyway?
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The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, its Justification, as Paul taught and preach how lost sinners get now right with God!
 
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Yeshua1

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JonC said:
NT Wright is correct in the article. Justification by faith is not what Paul means by the gospel (in the Pauline epistles).

In Romans Paul uses the word that we use for evangelism (to proclaim) as the word for the gospel. This is the proclamation of Christ - that is the gospel that Jesus taught (Jesus proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom).

Justification is very important. It is deals with how men enter into this Kingdom. But Paul was not saying that the Doctrine of Justification is the power of God unto salvation. Justification (or Righteousness) is not the gospel itself.

You are wrong.
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No, Wright and the NPP are dead wrong on this issue!
 
37818

37818

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John 3;3, ". . . Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . ."

Revelation 21:27, ". . . And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. . . ."
 
JonC

JonC

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Moderator
Yeshua1 said:
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, its Justification, as Paul taught and preach how lost sinners get now right with God!
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Sorry, but I have to stick with Scripture on this one. Scripture teaches us that the gospel Jesus proclaimed was the "gospel of the Kingdom of God". You may insist that Paul taught "another gospel" than was proclaimed to him, but I really doubt it.

Justification is one doctrine about the gospel as it relates to man. So is sanctification. And glorification. But none of these very important doctrines are the gospel itself and we need to be very careful not to ignore the gospel of Jesus Christ to teach "another gospel" even if we think Paul taught this other gospel.

Our conversation highlights one problem with our churches today - one that @kyredneck aptly pointed out.

The Bible specifically states that the gospel Jesus proclaimed was the gospel of God's kingdom. But you are saying that these are different gospels. While Jesus proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom of God you believe that Paul proclaimed an entirely different gospel.

You have way too many gospels, brother. You have one gospel for the OT, one for Jesus, and an entirely different one for Paul. And then you present the church as disciples not of Christ and His gospel but of Paul and the "gospel of Justification". This is just wrong. And you are dangerously wrong.

There is ONE gospel. The gospel in the OT was the proclamation that God was going to bring about His Kingdom via His Messiah. The gospel Jesus taught was this "gospel of the Kingdom of God". AND this is the SAME gospel that Paul taught even when he expounded on doctrines about the gospel when discussing jusification.
 
JonC

JonC

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Moderator
Yeshua1 said:
Is that not justification?
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No. One must be justified (one must experience this "righteousness of God manifested apart from the Law" but the gospel is so much more than "man has a right standing with God" or "man is now justified".

We are not saved just for the sake of getting saved, or going to heaven. We are saved to be a part of God's people, God's Kingdom. And justification is only one part of this work. Being reconciled we are _______ . Fill in the blank (use your Bible) and you may come to realize the fuller extent of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and why the Bible states that Jesus came to proclaim "the gospel of the Kingdom of God".
 
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tyndale1946

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Brightfame52 said:
Okay then we agree on that, that is good. The reason why that is important is because it shows that sinners Christ died for, even as unbelieving enemies, are not under Gods condemnation and wrath as unbelieving enemies as these Jn 3:18,36. What you think about that ? Can they be reconciled to God legally by Christs death, and still be condemned, under wrath at the same time ?
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I was also going to answer yes but I want to wait and see where kyredneck (aka Kentucky) is going with this?... Then I will weigh his answer and give you mine... Btw... Welcome to the BB... I'm Brother Glen:)
 
JonC

JonC

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Moderator
@Yeshua1 ,

Please consider:

Here are some things that we know:

Jesus taught in the synagogues proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom (Matthew 4:23)

Philip preached the Kingdom of God (Acts 8)

Paul was actually stoned by the Jews for proclaiming this gospel of the Kingdom of God (Acts 14)

Paul boldly proclaimed the Kingdom of God in the synagogues (Acts 19)

God performed miracles through Paul as testimony concerning the gospel of the Kingdom of God (Acts 19)

Paul’s ministry in Rome was preaching the kingdom of God (Acts 28)
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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JonC said:
Sorry, but I have to stick with Scripture on this one. Scripture teaches us that the gospel Jesus proclaimed was the "gospel of the Kingdom of God". You may insist that Paul taught "another gospel" than was proclaimed to him, but I really doubt it.

Justification is one doctrine about the gospel as it relates to man. So is sanctification. And glorification. But none of these very important doctrines are the gospel itself and we need to be very careful not to ignore the gospel of Jesus Christ to teach "another gospel" even if we think Paul taught this other gospel.

Our conversation highlights one problem with our churches today - one that @kyredneck aptly pointed out.

The Bible specifically states that the gospel Jesus proclaimed was the gospel of God's kingdom. But you are saying that these are different gospels. While Jesus proclaimed the gospel of the Kingdom of God you believe that Paul proclaimed an entirely different gospel.

You have way too many gospels, brother. You have one gospel for the OT, one for Jesus, and an entirely different one for Paul. And then you present the church as disciples not of Christ and His gospel but of Paul and the "gospel of Justification". This is just wrong. And you are dangerously wrong.

There is ONE gospel. The gospel in the OT was the proclamation that God was going to bring about His Kingdom via His Messiah. The gospel Jesus taught was this "gospel of the Kingdom of God". AND this is the SAME gospel that Paul taught even when he expounded on doctrines about the gospel when discussing jusification.
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There is the New Covenant, which was how sinners were able to get reconciled and restored back to God, that is the theme of someone like Paul in both Galatians and Romans, individual salvation!
The Apostle preached that sinners turn and trust in Jesus to get saved!
 
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