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Son of JOHN 3:16 :)

Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
you just don't know what you are talking about! This verse shows beyond any doubt, that the "world" that God SO LOVES, is the entire human race. It is only those who out of this "world", who believe in Jesus Christ, that will be saved. The fact that God SO LOVES every human being, also shows that He desires their salvation, and has made sure that Jesus Christ also died for their sins, as is clear from the fact that Jesus shed His blood for Judas, which is seen in Luke 22!
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T'was Brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe.
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

(I loved that quote from Alice in Wonderland ... it often reminds me of discussions on the internet.) :)
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
Yeah you are going to have to do more than just make the claim....
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"shall not perish" The implication is that some will perish (aorist middle subjunctive). Their perishing (amollumi, aorist middle subjunctive) is directly related to their lack of a faith response to Jesus (cf. John 11:25). God does not cause, direct, or will their unbelief (cf. Ezek. 18:23,32; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9)."

Dr Bob Utley, Commenraty on John

Here it is clear that of the "whosoever believes", some will indeed perish!
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
"shall not perish" The implication is that some will perish (aorist middle subjunctive). Their perishing (amollumi, aorist middle subjunctive) is directly related to their lack of a faith response to Jesus (cf. John 11:25). God does not cause, direct, or will their unbelief (cf. Ezek. 18:23,32; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9)."

Dr Bob Utley, Commenraty on John

Here it is clear that of the "whosoever believes", some will indeed perish!
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So some believers still go to Hell??????!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1Peter 2:24 (NASB)
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

1) Christ died for all humankind, providing a ransom for all.
2) Only those God transfers into Christ are saved by His sacrifice. Those never transferred into Christ were never saved.
3) Thus the "you" refers only to those placed in Christ.

Here again is the actual gospel:

God loved humankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Thus Christ's death did not save everyone, but did provide the means of salvation to everyone believing into Him.

To believe into Him means the person's faith was credited as righteousness by God and therefore God put them into Christ.

Everyone God puts into Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

The Gospel of Christ.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Van said:
1Peter 2:24 (NASB)
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

1) Christ died for all humankind, providing a ransom for all.
2) Only those God transfers into Christ are saved by His sacrifice. Those never transferred into Christ were never saved.
3) Thus the "you" refers only to those placed in Christ.

Here again is the actual gospel:

God loved humankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Thus Christ's death did not save everyone, but did provide the means of salvation to everyone believing into Him.

To believe into Him means the person's faith was credited as righteousness by God and therefore God put them into Christ.

Everyone God puts into Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

The Gospel of Christ.
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Problem with this analysis. Who is the you in the verse? Context shows it is the elect.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Van said:
1Peter 2:24 (NASB)
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

1) Christ died for all humankind, providing a ransom for all.
2) Only those God transfers into Christ are saved by His sacrifice. Those never transferred into Christ were never saved.
3) Thus the "you" refers only to those placed in Christ.

Here again is the actual gospel:

God loved humankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son so that everyone believing into Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Thus Christ's death did not save everyone, but did provide the means of salvation to everyone believing into Him.

To believe into Him means the person's faith was credited as righteousness by God and therefore God put them into Christ.

Everyone God puts into Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

The Gospel of Christ.
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The who would be the saved, the elect in Christ!
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Reformed1689 said:
Yes, but you use it as a proof text to say Christ died for every individual whether elect or not correct?
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Proof text is your term for nullifying what scripture says. I use John 3:16 to say God loved humankind in this way... And of course a person is not playing square if those not saved are considered not a part of "humankind."

1) I do not deny God desires all persons to be saved according to the requirements of His redemption plan.
2) I do not deny Christ died for those chosen or to be chosen, and for those never to be chosen.
3) I do not deny only those God places into Christ are chosen for salvation. Those not placed into Christ are not chosen for salvation, thus not "elect."
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Proof text is your term for nullifying what scripture says. I use John 3:16 to say God loved humankind in this way... And of course a person is not playing square if those not saved are considered not a part of "humankind."

1) I do not deny God desires all persons to be saved according to the requirements of His redemption plan.
2) I do not deny Christ died for those chosen or to be chosen, and for those never to be chosen.
3) I do not deny only those God places into Christ are chosen for salvation. Those not placed into Christ are not chosen for salvation, thus not "elect."
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No it is not a term for nullifying what Scripture says. It is a method people use for taking Scripture out of context to make it say something it does not.

John 3:16 says nothing about humankind. It says world. John 3:16 is not speaking of all individuals. That is not a question that verse is answering.

1. Nowhere does the Scripture say God desires all persons to be saved. If that was truly His will, it would be so. In fact, Scripture says pretty plainly that there are some that are not desired to be saved and rather are vessels of destruction.
2. Nowhere does Scripture say Christ died for those who are not chosen. And there is no "to be" chosen. You either are or you are not, it is as plain as that.
3. Common ground but I think we also mean slightly different things by that statement.
 
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