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Featured John Gerstner's Unbiblical Nonsense!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2021.

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  1. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    " And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."     ( Revelation 20:14-15 ).

    " And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
    5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."     ( Luke 12:4-5 ).

    Matthew 25:31-46.
     
    #61 Dave G, Feb 8, 2021
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  2. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

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    The stated object of God's love in that verse is not the one believing, it is the world. Anyone in the world who responds to God's love by believing in His Son will have everlasting life. The Lord's words are clear and unambiguous.
     
    #62 Tsalagi, Feb 8, 2021
  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    " backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31 without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    32 who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."     ( Romans 1:30-32 ).

    " And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."     ( John 3:19-20 ).
     
    #63 Dave G, Feb 8, 2021
  4. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

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    That would be a question for Dr. Gerstner. I do not agree with his view on this question.
     
    #64 Tsalagi, Feb 8, 2021
  5. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

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    So it's OK to speak your version of the truth in strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction (1 Timothy 6:4) because the other guy is doing it? That kind of behavior should be avoided in discussing biblical truths no matter what the opinion. Jesus says if we believe Scripture we ought to listen to what it says, and it clearly says don't bite and devour one another.
     
    #65 Tsalagi, Feb 8, 2021
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  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    And Gerstner simply responded to a speculative question by stating that all in heaven will agree with the justice of God. Do you think the redeemed will question God's justice when we are in heaven?
     
    #66 AustinC, Feb 8, 2021
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  7. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

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    He didn't say "agree" - he said "rejoice."
     
    #67 Tsalagi, Feb 8, 2021
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Psalms 58:10
     
    #68 Aaron, Feb 8, 2021
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  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The fact you have a bias and someone points it out is hardly "biting and devouring" someone. Enough with the faux outrage. Deal with the topic.
    Gerstner answered a speculative question with an assertion that God is just and all person's in heaven will agree with God's justice. Do you disagree that God is just or do you disagree that the saints will view God as just when we enter heaven?
    Which assertion do you disagree with?
     
    #69 AustinC, Feb 8, 2021
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Rev. 14:10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

    Seems likely that if the angels know about it, as well as the Lamb, the saints will know about it too.
     
    #70 robycop3, Feb 8, 2021
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  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Who does "Whoever" leave out?
     
    #71 robycop3, Feb 8, 2021
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    more nonsense from the Reformed, who respond without knowing what they are on about!

    Theophilus of Antioch, was the first person to use this term, in about A.D. 180. not long after it was more defined by the theologian, Tertullian, who actually is the earliest reference to 1 John 5:7, as in the KJV!

    PLEASE quit posting nonsense!
     
    #72 SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2021
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    how do you deduce the saints from this passage?
     
    #73 SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2021
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    yet another abuse of what the Bible actually says! please show from this verse what Ggerstner says!
     
    #74 SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2021
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    don't try to soften what Gerstner actually says!
     
    #75 SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2021
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    when you can learn to understand simple verses of the Bible, then please do join in these more advanced discussions! :rolleyes:
     
    #76 SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2021
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    They'll be in heaven then.
     
    #77 robycop3, Feb 8, 2021
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Justin Martyr (100-165): “For the whole human race will be found to be under a curse. … the Father of all wished His Christ for the whole human family to take upon Him the curses of all, knowing that, after He had been crucified and was dead, He would raise Him up,… His Father wished Him to suffer this, in order that by His stripes the human race might be healed”

    Clement of Alexandria (150-220): "Christ freely brings...salvation to the whole human race."

    Eusebius (260-340): "It was needful that the Lamb of God should be offered for the other lambs whose nature He assumed, even for the whole human race."

    Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386): "Do not wonder if the whole world was ransomed, for He was not a mere man, but the only-begotten Son of God."

    Gregory of Nazianzen (324-389): "The sacrifice of Christ is an imperishable expiation of the whole world."

    Ambrose (340-407): "Christ suffered for all, rose again for all. But if anyone does not believe in Christ, he deprives himself of that general benefit." He also said, "Christ came for the salvation of all, and undertook the redemption of all, inasmuch as He brought a remedy by which all might escape, although there are many who...are unwilling to be healed."

    Cyril of Alexandria (376-444): "The death of one flesh is sufficient for the ransom of the whole human race, for it belonged to the Logos, begotten of God the Father."

    Prosper (a friend and disciple of Augustine who died in 463): "As far as relates to the magnitude and virtue of the price, and to the one cause of the human race, the blood of Christ is the redemption of the whole world: but those who pass through this life without the faith of Christ, and the sacrament of regeneration, do not partake of the redemption." He also said, "The Savior is most rightly said to have been crucified for the redemption of the whole world." He then said, "Although the blood of Christ be the ransom of the whole world, yet they are excluded from its benefit, who, being delighted with their captivity, are unwilling to be redeemed by it."

    Martin Luther (1483-1546): "Christ is not cruel exactor, but a forgiver of the sins of the whole world....He hath given Himself for our sins, and with one oblation hath put away the sins of the whole world....Christ hath taken away the sins, not of certain men only, but also of thee, yea, of the whole world...Not only my sins and thine, but also the sins of the whole world...take hold upon Christ."

    Philip Melanchton (1497-1560): "It is necessary to know that the Gospel is a universal promise, that is, that reconciliation is offered and promised to all mankind. It is necessary to hold that this promise is universal, in opposition to any dangerous imaginations on predestination, lest we should reason this promise pertains to a few others and ourselves. But we declare that the promise of the Gospel is universal. And to this are brought those universal expressions which are used constantly in the Scriptures."

    Other people involved to some degree in the Reformation who held to unlimited atonement include: Hugh Latimer, Myles Coverdale, Thomas Cranmer, Wolfgang Musculus, Henry Bullinger, Benedict Aretius, Thomas Becon, Jerome Zanchius, David Paraeus, and, as noted earlier, John Calvin.
     
    #78 SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2021
  19. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    " And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. "     ( Revelation 14:9-11 )

    As it stands, I'm not sure what you see, but if His saints are with Him and in His presence,
    then according to this, they will indeed see people in torment the Lake of Fire.:Speechless

    But I see no reason to think that we, as His saints, will rejoice at their terrible punishment.:Sick
    Rather, I believe that we will rejoice at our being saved from it.
     
    #79 Dave G, Feb 8, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I know, but this does not mean that anyone, not even the angels, will actually "see" the suffering of the wicked. I cannot accept that God would do such a thing!
     
    #80 SavedByGrace, Feb 8, 2021
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