What happens to babies when they die?

[Dave G]

If those people were given in the Covenant of redemption they will be in heaven. If not they will not.If they are not in the Covenant of Redemption they will not be.

I agree.

I believe salvation is granted by God, not dependent on an Arminian scheme of following a formula.

I think you know where I stand on this one, Tony.

Earlier I posted that God ordains whatever means are necessary.....If you meet infants who die in infancy in Heaven....they will be fully grown,defective persons will be healed.They all will know Jesus is Lord. They will all be repentant.

I understand your reasoning here.
However, I cannot fully agree with it based on what I see in the Scriptures.

At the end of the day, I'd like to see that all people who are otherwise unable to follow through per Romans 10, John 3 and other places, would automatically be saved;
But that's not my call to make, my friend.

That is His and His alone.
His is a perfect justice...

What we would do or not do ( when it comes to saving any of us ), doesn't even enter into His purposes ( Daniel 4:35 and many others ).

 

[Dave G]

Are you suggesting there will not be any such persons in Heaven?

The truth is, I don't know for absolutely sure.
But I do know what characterizes a believer from the Scriptures, and I do know what the Lord says has to happen in the life of one of His elect for them to be saved.

For example, there must to be certain evidences of His working in them.

Are you suggesting there will not be any such persons in Heaven?The confessional statement declares Elect infants, Elect disabled persons...
If none are elected your idea would have merit.
I stick with the wording of the historic confessions based on Gods Covenant love.

Honestly?

I couldn't care less about confessions and creeds, of any kind.
Whatever men who came before me said and taught about the Bible, outside of the apostles themselves and the Lord Jesus, is ( ultimately ) irrelevant to me.
Some of it may be helpful, but in the end I'm free to throw it all out if I don't see it agreeing with the word of God.

What I'm interested in, is Scriptural declarations one way or the other.
"Sola Scriptura" I believe, is the phrase.

To me, anything outside of God's word I may agree with, or I may not.

 

[Iconoclast]

And this is the problem I have with Covenant Theology. You have to fill in holes that Scripture does not fill in. What Scripture says that there are different rules for normal people vs everyone else, and where does it define what normal is? I don't believe Scripture has anything like that

I understand your thinking but I find it inconsistent.
The systematic Theology stands unchanging.
The multitude of people who God purposes to save are going to be saved..
In psalm 139 we are told how God knows all people as they are being formed.
He knew that before time. He knows those who are His.
Infants and handicapped persons do not escape God's consideration
Ex.4:11
There is only one way of salvation.
So...are you suggesting these people have no place in Heaven?
Do you think they cannot be saved?
On what basis can they go apart from the mediatorial work of the Lord?
The particular redemption has been accomplished.

Amen.

Again, I agree.

To agree with you here, I'd need to see where God's word specifically lays that out.
Otherwise, I believe that we are engaging in speculation, and I'd rather rest on the firm foundation of His word.

No...I rest on the Covenant faithfulness of God.
These is no speculation in the confessional statement.

 

[37818]

All inspired sentences from God. How do they answer the OP?

I am of the persuasion little childern are safe, Matthew 19:14, ". . . Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. . . ." Re: Matthew 18:3.

 

[Alan Gross]

I understand your thinking but I find it inconsistent.
The systematic Theology stands unchanging.
The multitude of people who God purposes to save are going to be saved..
In psalm 139 we are told how God knows all people as they are being formed.
He knew that before time. He knows those who are His.
Infants and handicapped persons do not escape God's consideration
Ex.4:11
There is only one way of salvation.
So...are you suggesting these people have no place in Heaven?
Do you think they cannot be saved?
On what basis can they go apart from the mediatorial work of the Lord?
The particular redemption has been accomplished.

No...I rest on the Covenant faithfulness of God.
These is no speculation in the confessional statement.

The deadness of my dead Spiritual Condition was deader than a Rock that The Lord Could Cause to Praise Him.

You must be Born again.


Can an infant or unborn be given Conviction, Repentance and Faith in Jesus Christ?

I could and they are no more dead than I.

John the Baptist was Given Salvation in the womb.

Are all babies? No reason to say.

No one knows. Preach the Gospel to them, before they are born.

Are no unborn babies or any other group 'automatically' Saved, like, 'who die before the age of accountability. That is a second, accursed, gospel and it can not be stated.

Do we Love a God like that that does not tell us?

That is the test.

 

[Iconoclast]

The truth is, I don't know for absolutely sure.
But I do know what characterizes a believer from the Scriptures, and I do know what the Lord says has to happen in the life of one of His elect for them to be saved.

For example, there must to be certain evidences of His working in them.

Honestly?

I couldn't care less about confessions and creeds, of any kind.
Whatever men who came before me said and taught about the Bible, outside of the apostles themselves and the Lord Jesus, is ( ultimately ) irrelevant to me.
Some of it may be helpful, but in the end I'm free to throw it all out if I don't see it agreeing with the word of God.

What I'm interested in, is Scriptural declarations one way or the other.
"Sola Scriptura" I believe, is the phrase.

To me, anything outside of God's word I may agree with, or I may not.

Hello DG

I enjoy most of your posts as I know you are serious about the word of God.
Of course each one of us gives account of himself to God.
By that I mean we are both free to interact with God and the scriptures as we see fit.
There are a couple of areas where we differ in a way that makes a vast difference. I have known a small handful of brothers who have said similar things.
They speak against"books of men", confessional teaching, Catechisms some even deny bible studies, sunday School, or participating in a local church.
I believe these thoughts to be unbiblical, and detrimental to a persons growth in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Everyone should be involved in intense personal bible study everyday.
I believe you are all about that.I see you try to help others come to truth in most of your posts.
That being said you are taking a stance that is contrary to your posted beliefs.
What do I mean?
You are a man.You post words that you intend for others to benefit from.
You try and he a peacemaker when a thread gets heated up.you offer instruction most times from scripture.
David.....why should any of us read what you post???
Reading your post is reading the words of one person.
I have several books in the truck with me at all times
Today I am going to dig into 3 books in particular.
The works of Thomas Watson...vol.1
Why would I do that?
I read scripture everyday. I see what I can in the verses.
I am not that smart and have limitations.knowing that I am not so proud to look to more gifted persons, pastors and teachers and see if God allowed them to see something I missed.
More often than not I am startled by the abundance of teaching that they open up to me. Sometimes I am shocked by how much I missed.
No only that, I have made it a point to meet with or travel to hear some very gifted persons who quite frankly challenged and corrected many of my underdeveloped thoughts.
I think it is not a correct choice to avoid such teaching that God has given to the Church.Eph4.:11-16

 

[Iconoclast]

I am of the persuasion little childern are safe, Matthew 19:14, ". . . Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. . . ." Re: Matthew 18:3.

Have you noticed in mt.18:6...it was these little ones who believe?

 

[Reformed1689]

The multitude of people who God purposes to save are going to be saved..

We agree

In psalm 139 we are told how God knows all people as they are being formed.

Again, we agree.

Infants and handicapped persons do not escape God's consideration
Ex.4:11

What exactly do you mean by this?

So...are you suggesting these people have no place in Heaven?

Did I state that? No I didn't. I have said I do not have a position. What I do know, is that Scripture does not seem to allow for salvation without repentance as @Dave G has pointed out. Covenant Theology tries to skirt this issue which is why I find CT woefully inadequate. There are arguments to be made for the possibility of the salvation of infants, but we cannot say it without doubt. It definitely should not be a doctrine.

The reason I can subscribe, in good conscience, to the London Confession is because it doesn't say infants dying in infancy, it says elect infants dying in infancy. Do we know that any of the elect do actually die in infancy? No we do not.

You seem to add in a lot of speculative details while ignoring the clear call that the elect will all come to repentance as others have pointed out.

Now, I am not saying God can't do this. But I am not willing to go so far to say with certainty that he does do this. To me, that would be a mishandling of the Scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

I am of the persuasion little childern are safe, Matthew 19:14, ". . . Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. . . ." Re: Matthew 18:3.

That literally has nothing to do with the topic. Those verses do not say infants who die are safe.

 

[37818]

Have you noticed in mt.18:6...it was these little ones who believe?

They are not the same. The little children are too young to believe. παιδια versus μικρων, little ones.

 

[Reformed1689]

They speak against"books of men", confessional teaching, Catechisms some even deny bible studies, sunday School, or participating in a local church.
I believe these thoughts to be unbiblical, and detrimental to a persons growth in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the record, that's not what @Dave G said....

 

[37818]

That literally has nothing to do with the topic. Those verses do not say infants who die are safe.

Sorry you cannot understand little children include infants. Being too young to believe.

 

[Reformed1689]

Sorry you cannot understand little children include infants. Being to young to believe.

What are you talking about?

 

[Iconoclast]

For the record, that's not what @Dave G said....

I am trying to provoke you and David...lol
I know you did not say that. I am provoking you to clarify your view as if a person came up to you and asked for your view on this.
I am offering what I see based on God's Covenant faithfulness.
I know many go to more emotional explanations that I find not scripturally based. Even such people as Spurgeon and John M.
They set forth speculation based on what They define as the character of God.
Those reasonings I find quite disturbing.
Those who hold out for the age of accountability I also reject.
Did either of those two ideas.exempt children under 20 or infants in arms from the destruction of the world of the ungodly?
How about when Israel was told to slaughter men woman and children in 1 sam.15.:3

 

[Iconoclast]

For the record, that's not what @Dave G said....

I did say "they"....as in other friends I have who gave raised similar objections.
My friend Charlie who I have known for 45 years was the first to voice such a concern.

 

[Yeshua1]

What do you mean? Latter choice? What is that.

The view that God has chosen to elect unto salvation all infants, not just the ones of saved parents!

 

[Iconoclast]

The view that God has chosen to elect unto salvation all infants, not just the ones of saved parents!

Ok...some offer that based on 1 cor 7.
Mostly Presbyterians and Christian Reformed.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ok...some offer that based on 1 cor 7.
Mostly Presbyterians and Christian Reformed.

I have heard some say just the infants of the elect/saved will also get saved, but disagree with that, as calvin stated road to hell paved with bodies of babies!

 

[37818]

What are you talking about?

Being too young to believe. Such that their names would not have been removed, so would still be in the book of life, Revelation 20:15.

 

[Yeshua1]

Being too young to believe. Such that their names would not have been removed, so would still be in the book of life, Revelation 20:15.

NONE who are written into the lamb book of life ever get erased out!