Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

[SavedByGrace]

ou said that God knows who would have believed if they heard the gospel and let them into heaven even though they never expressed faith in Jesus

where and when did I say this? You are making FALSE claims against me!

 

[SavedByGrace]

In fact, since you believe God will let people into heaven if they WOULD HAVE believed but never heard the gospel

I think that you are need of some very serious help, as you continue to talk NONSENSE!!!

 

[George Antonios]

Here it is very clear, that the Gospel Message that we are to proclaim to the entire world, is, “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures”

That's a good point. I am commanded to go preach to every creature that Christ shed his blood for their sins so that they might be justified through faith in his blood (Rom.3:25), but my Calvinist brother tells me that Christ's blood was only shed for a select group. If the Calvinist is right, then God commanded me to preach a lie, for he tells me to tell them that his blood was shed for them, when in reality it wasn't shed for all those to whom I say that.

Calvinism is madness. I'm not saying that just to be inflammatory. I really believe it. It's becoming clearer.

 

[George Antonios]

Here we see that God has predestined to salvation those whom He foresaw that they would be saved. That is, He knew it beforehand...
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28 Moreover, we know that to those who love God, who are called according to His will, all things work together for good.
29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be like the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 But those whom He predestined, he called, and those whom He called, He justified; and those whom he justified, he glorified.
31 What can I say to this? If God is for us, who is against us?
(Rom. 8: 28-31)
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But here we see that the Lord God does not judge by foreknowledge or predestination, but by specific sins and misdeeds.
That is, God can judge against His own prediction and intention about a person
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11 Say to them, "As I live," says the Lord God, " I do not want the death of a sinner, but that the sinner should turn from his way and live." Turn, turn from your evil ways; why should you die, O House of Israel?
12 And you, son of man, speak to the children of thy people: the righteousness of the righteous will not deliver on the day of his crimes, and the wicked for their iniquity shall not fall thereby in the day from his wickedness, and the righteous on the day of his transgression can't stay alive for their righteousness.
13 When I tell the righteous man that he will live, and he trusts in his own righteousness and does unrighteousness, then all his righteous deeds will not be remembered, and he will die of his unrighteousness, which he has done.
14 But when I say to the wrongdoer, 'You will die by death,' and he will turn from his sins and do justice and righteousness,
15 If this wrongdoer returns the pledge, pays for what he has stolen, and walks according to the laws of life, doing nothing evil, he will live, he will not die.
16 None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered to him; he has begun to do justice and righteousness, and he will live.
17 But the children of your people say, 'The way of the LORD is wrong,' while their way is wrong.
18 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and begins to commit iniquity, he will die for it.
19 And when the wicked man has turned from his iniquity, and has begun to do justice and righteousness, he will live for it.
20 But you say, ' The way of the Lord is wrong!' I will judge you, House of Israel, every one according to his ways.
(Ezek.33:11-20)
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What, then, is the outcome of all this? The result is that God has chosen all of us to be saved, but not all of us leave our sins, and therefore many go to perdition, since those who have sinned have a place there by their own actions.

What is predestinated in Romans 8 is NOT salvation, but rather conformity to the image of Christ.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son [NOT "to be saved" or "to obtain eternal life", etc.], that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

The image of Christ is the physical image of his resurrection body, a blessing connected to salvation but not salvation itself.
Romans 8 is saying that God predestinated foreknown believers to obtain a Christ-like resurrection body.

Please consider taking a few minutes to watch this Bible study:

 

[SavedByGrace]

That's a good point. I am commanded to go preach to every creature that Christ shed his blood for their sins so that they might be justified through faith in his blood (Rom.3:25), but my Calvinist brother tells me that Christ's blood was only shed for a select group. If the Calvinist is right, then God commanded me to preach a lie, for he tells me to tell them that his blood was shed for them, when in reality it wasn't shed for all those to whom I say that.

Calvinism is madness. I'm not saying that just to be inflammatory. I really believe it. It's becoming clearer.

Reformed/Calvinistic Soteriology, is very much against what the Bible actually teaches, and is therefore "heresy". This does not make though who have been blinded to believe this, unsaved, or heretical. But it is clear that they do pervert the Gospel Message to their own theological slant, and are gulity of preaching a "part" Gospel Message. I have seen the way some on here simply reject that Jesus Christ in Luke's Gospel, actually gave the bread and wine to Judas, and told him that He was going to die for his sins! Even their own theologians, Matthew Henry and John Gill, are honest enough to admit that Judas did actually take the bread and wine. And Calvin's comments on Mark 14:24, in relation to the Lord's Supper, commenting on the use of "many" in this Gospel, says, "Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse". But again, this is rejected by these Reformed/Calvinists!

 

[canadyjd]

where and when did I say this? You are making FALSE claims against me!

Post #82.

I’m surprised you don’t remember saying God was “very likely” to allow people into heaven who would have believed but never had a chance to hear the gospel.

I will accept your apology for claiming I made a false allegation against you.

I suspect you may be in shock because you are beginning to realize your beliefs actually lead to an insincere offer of salvation to those God knows will reject the gospel.

Your hatred for God’s sovereignty in the salvation of mankind in driving you bananas.

peace to you

 

[George Antonios]

Your hatred for God’s sovereignty in the salvation of mankind in driving you bananas.

I think those comments are key indicators of the motivation behind one's maintaining of Calvinism.
It really affords its adherent a platform of condescension: "I am too humble to claim that I could even believe of my own, even that, God did for me. I'm so humble that I, even though I can't understand it, accept that God deals with mankind as mere automatons when he flicks on the light inside them. You can't accept that because, unlike me, you are too proud to accept the sovereignty of God".

heresies are a work of the flesh (Gal.5) and boy oh boy does Calvinism provide a man with the opportunity to boast of his great humility.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Post #82.

I’m surprised you don’t remember saying God was “very likely” to allow people into heaven who would have believed but never had a chance to hear the gospel.

I will accept your apology for claiming I made a false allegation against you.

I suspect you may be in shock because you are beginning to realize your beliefs actually lead to an insincere offer of salvation to those God knows will reject the gospel.

Your hatred for God’s sovereignty in the salvation of mankind in driving you bananas.

peace to you

Here are my words from #82, show me where I said what you claim I did? I have written in English English, which might be difficult for you to understand. I can help if you want

your argument is moot! God "wills" that no human being is ever lost. What happens to those who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel, is a Mystery. It is very possible, that God, being God, Foreknows all things, and would therefore know if the people who have died without hearing the Gospel, would have accepted or rejected the Gospel Message, and accordingly they go either to heaven or hell. Here is a question for you, do you believe that God will send all those who are born with mental problems, who know almost nothing, to eternal punishment? Those born with brain damage, are they condemned to the eternal flames of hell?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Your hatred for God’s sovereignty in the salvation of mankind in driving you bananas

do you actually KNOW what you are saying here? I think that this term "God’s sovereignty", is something that you really fail to understand! And you claim that I HATE this??? You are NUTS!!!

 

[canadyjd]

I think those comments are key indicators of the motivation behind one's maintaining of Calvinism.......

heresies are a work of the flesh (Gal.5) and boy oh boy does Calvinism provide a man with the opportunity to boast of his great humility.

Once again, when people don’t like your views, they pretend to know your motivations and call you a heretic.

Let’s make it clear so you don’t have to speculate. I believe the doctrines of grace because that is what scripture says.

I make no claims to great humility or piety. (Please don’t interpret this statement as a false claim of humility and call me a heretic again)

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[George Antonios]

Once again, when people don’t like your views, they pretend to know your motivations and call you a heretic.

Says the man who just told his brother:

Your HATRED for God’s sovereignty in the salvation of mankind in driving you bananas.

(emphases in quotes are mine)

 

[SavedByGrace]

Once again, when people don’t like your views, they pretend to know your motivations and call you a heretic.

Let’s make it clear so you don’t have to speculate. I believe the doctrines of grace because that is what scripture says.

I make no claims to great humility or piety. (Please don’t interpret this statement as a false claim of humility and call me a heretic again)

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

You need to get a grip on your knowledge of the English language. Saying that someone holds to a view that is hersey which means unbiblical, does not make them a heretic!

 

[canadyjd]

Here are my words from #82, show me where I said what you claim I did? I have written in English English, which might be difficult for you to understand. I can help if you want

your argument is moot! God "wills" that no human being is ever lost. What happens to those who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel, is a Mystery.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is very possible, that God, being God, Foreknows all things, and would therefore know if the people who have died without hearing the Gospel, would have accepted or rejected the Gospel Message, and accordingly they go either to heaven or hell. !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is a question for you, do you believe that God will send all those who are born with mental problems, who know almost nothing, to eternal punishment? Those born with brain damage, are they condemned to the eternal flames of hell?

I highlighted your own words with !!!!!!!!! to make it easier for you to see.

Don’t you realize that your beliefs make the gospel to all people an insincere offer of salvation, specifically to those who God knows will reject it.

Why does God want us to proclaim the gospel to those He knows will reject it? And why not attempt to explain how your position is different from the reformed position?

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Says the man who just told his brother:
(emphases in quotes are mine)

Says the man who stated reformed beliefs are “madness” and heretical and those who hold them do so with false humility.

Plenty of self-righteous indignation to go around for everyone.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[George Antonios]

Why does God want us to proclaim the gospel to those He knows will reject it? And why not attempt to explain how your position is different from the reformed position?

Imagine God telling untold men consigned to eternal flames: "well I never told you because I knew you would reject anyway".
God's justice would certainly not be manifest in such a case nor exonerated from baseless accusations.
However, when God has offered them a sincere call to salvation, and they rejected, then there is no room for objection.
God is vindicated: as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou [God] art judged.

 

[canadyjd]

You need to get a grip on your knowledge of the English language. Saying that someone holds to a view that is hersey which means unbiblical, does not make them a heretic!

Really? Thanks fir lerin me ‘omtin specil. I sss alweys thunk oldin’eliefs that wern heretical makes yu a heretic.

peace to you

 

[George Antonios]

Really? Thanks fir lerin me ‘omtin specil. I sss alweys thunk oldin’eliefs that wern heretical makes yu a heretic.

peace to you

I'd agree there. A heretic is someone who believes a heresy.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I highlighted your own words with !!!!!!!!! to make it easier for you to see.

Don’t you realize that your beliefs make the gospel to all people an insincere offer of salvation, specifically to those who God knows will reject it.

Why does God want us to proclaim the gospel to those He knows will reject it? And why not attempt to explain how your position is different from the reformed position?

peace to you

I want to clarify one thing first. You claim that I said "very likely", but I actually said is "very possible" not even "probably". Do you know what the difference is

 

[canadyjd]

Imagine God telling untold men consigned to eternal flames: "well I never told you because I knew you would reject anyway".
God's justice would certainly not be manifest in such a case nor exonerated from baseless accusations.
However, when God has offered them a sincere call to salvation, and they rejected, then there is no room for objection.
God is vindicated: as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou [God] art judged.

Your position doesn’t address the untold billions that died never hearing the gospel.

What does God tell them? Will God be unjust to “consign them to eternal flames”? Do they have a base for accusation against God?

peace to you

 

[Alan Gross]

God doesn't Call a person to say He is a Liar, or insincere.

God Calls Saved souls to say, "Nay but, O man, who art thou?"