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Easter in Tyndale's Bible Before KJV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Hark, Mar 3, 2021.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would be interesting to somehow find a copy of the Kjv before final editing happened!
     
    #61 Yeshua1, Mar 5, 2021
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  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I have also read(But I don't remember where or when) that Easter came from the German "Ostern", meaning 'Eastern'.
     
    #62 robycop3, Mar 7, 2021
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I read that somewhere too. Hard to tell what's right on this one. It's a complicated history.
     
    #63 John of Japan, Mar 7, 2021
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I don't concern myself much with the origin of the word 'Easter', as I know ir's been used to indicate the observance of the anniversary of Jesus' resurrection long before Tyndale or the AV 1611.

    And I recall reading somewhere that Tyndale coined 'passover' to differentiate between that observance & that of Easter.
     
    #64 robycop3, Mar 8, 2021
  5. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    @John of Japan

    Can't be true when his use of Easter in the N.T. is in the same reference to Passover in the O.T. He coined "eaterlambe" to signify the Passover Lamb sacrifice in the O.T.. Martin Luther did the same thing in German.

    So Tyndale was not differentiating what you know as Easter when he was using Easter in the N.T. to mean the Passover in the O.T.

    And he could not be doing it because of the RC use of Easter Sunday when he is applying it to all things concerning the Passover of the O.T. in the N.T.

    There is no other reasoning to be had.

    Tyndale was not leaving Easter as is, in his Bible because he did not have time to translate it as you once claimed when he was the first to coin Easter in English. Martin Luther was the first to coin Easter in German. Wycliffe left it untranslated.
     
    #65 Hark, Mar 8, 2021
  6. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    The Coming of the King James Gospels
    The Coming of the King James Gospels
    by Ward S. Allen and Edward C. Jacobs
     
    #66 Conan, Mar 9, 2021
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  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    None of thic changes the fact that "Easter" in the KJV is a goof, same as if I called a refrigerator an "icebox", despite that term's being used im my lifetime. Luke was referring to passover, not Easter; simple as THAT!
     
    #67 robycop3, Mar 9, 2021
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  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Refusing to understand that the word Easter can and did mean Passover in English does not make your point valid. Choosing to define Easter only in the way you want to mean it does not make your point valid. When Tyndale used esterlambe in 1526 he was not talking about some lamb that modern Americans might use in their plays, but the lamb that was offered according to the law of Moses.

    As to your "icebox" comment, you have that all balled up. Look in some dictionaries once in awhile. You will find that one of the definitions of icebox is "refrigerator." We have an old icebox -- a real old-timey one that belonged to my grandparents, then aunt & uncle. It has shelves and you put a block of ice in the bottom. We have a new icebox. It is electric and plugs in the wall and cools with freon. It has a box on top and we have ice in it. It would make its own ice if we hooked it to a water source. You can't just make up what you want things to mean and have them be that just because you want it to be that way. Some people play music by ear, but they don't slam the sides of their heads against the piano keys.

    upload_2021-3-9_8-14-20.png
    Los Angeles Illustrated Daily News, Wednesday, May 25, 1932
    ​
    What you call an icebox was also commonly called a refrigerator. We can't even trust your modern language arguments. How can we trust you on something from the 1500s?

    upload_2021-3-9_8-12-17.png
    The Brooklyn Daily Eagle, Wednesday, May 8, 1895​
     

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    #68 rlvaughn, Mar 9, 2021
  9. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    @John of Japan

    To say it is a goof in the KJV is to say it is a goof in Tyndale's Bible & a goof in Martin Luthor's German Bible & they were both before the KJV.

    Since Easter existed in the entire N.T. and not just Acts 12:4 before the KJV, it cannot be considered a goof when it represented the Jewish festivity in the Old Testament that we know now as Passover as the Jewish festivity was known in the entire N.T. as Easter back then

    Since Passover in English was not known to Luke but pascha in the Greek, then neither was Easter in English or German from pascha was known to Luke.

    It's kind of like saying that false charge against the KJV as if KJVers were saying God's words is preserved only in English which the KJVers never said. Indeed, by saying that false charge, you condemn all modern bibles because they are in English too.

    So to call Easter a goof in the KJV when it wasn't in the first place is you attacking Tyndale's Bible in English & Martin Luther's bible in German for back then Easter in the N.T. represented what was translated then as Passover in the O.T. back then.

    You are just stuck in the modern day usage of it, denying the other usage for Easter as referring to that Jewish festivity back then. And you'd be remiss if you believed that back then, the people did not see Tyndale's Bible nor Martin Luther's Bible as a goof when they knew what they meant too & understood Easter to represent that Jewish festivity in the O.T. .
     
    #69 Hark, Mar 9, 2021
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  10. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    The "goof" false charge is just ridiculous.

    We've already seen a 1610 Geneva Bible where Easter and Passover were used as synonyms.

    William Fulke's 1589 critique of the Roman Catholic Rhemes NT, in arguing against their using Latin "Pasca" (untranslated) throughout, he says there are two words used in English for that: "Easter", or "Passover".
    Fulke explains that Easter is "usual English term for that feast", while Passover is a way to express the meaning of the Hebrew word.

    fulk2a.JPG
    (also, besides using Pasca instead of Easter/Passover, Rhemes, instead of unleavened bread used Azyma [?!] )
    fulk1a.jpg
     
    #70 Jerome, Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Still, no getting by the FACT that Luke was referring to passover, not Easter.
     
    #71 robycop3, Mar 9, 2021
  12. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Just keep repeating it without any facts to back it up. Perhaps someone will eventually bow to your claim just because you said so, in spite of the evidence that has been given (see above, for example).
     
    #72 rlvaughn, Mar 9, 2021
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Interesting! Wonder how many changes and revisions to the entire kjv were made before 1611 final edition?
     
    #73 Yeshua1, Mar 9, 2021
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NONE in Acts ever had heard there was an easter!
     
    #74 Yeshua1, Mar 9, 2021
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Does NOT matter if they held Easter and Passover to be the same, for the duty of translator is to get back to what those hearing and reading it back then saw it as meaning!
     
    #75 Yeshua1, Mar 9, 2021
  16. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Ditto for Yeshua1, as seen in above posts, and the one below.

    Sorry, the "I read it somewhere"-(non)citations, adding "caps" or exclamation marks to substanceless pronouncements, don't cut it.
     
    #76 Jerome, Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We must translate this term as they would have heard it as being in Acts!
     
    #77 Yeshua1, Mar 9, 2021
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Let's say yours & Hark's claims are true. That's all the more reason NOT to preach from the KJV, as not 1 in 1000 English users associates Easter with passover except for the timing. Past-time to move on from the KJV's archaic language.
     
    #78 robycop3, Mar 9, 2021
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Just amazing to me how some will do handstands to not admit that the Kjv had ANY mistake!
     
    #79 Yeshua1, Mar 9, 2021
  20. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Yes, let's. [Note: the specific reference in the post you quoted was to Jerome's # 70.]
    At least you're making progress toward a more cogent argument about archaic language. I hope you are beginning to see archaic language is a different discussion than a so-called "goof".
     
    #80 rlvaughn, Mar 9, 2021
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