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Featured Understanding the NT re: eternal security

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Apr 4, 2021.

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  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    When I became born-again ...
    I was totally OPEN with no pre-conceived false doctrines.
    And now also ... I believe in no unscriptural doctrines, but
    I believe in what the NT clearly teaches!

    Some years ago, I collected approximately 20 NT passages
    which clearly threaten the loss of salvation.
    And there were quite a few more verses which hinted at this fact,
    but which simply served to confirm the truth of the obvious 20.

    But, do you think you’re going to hear this from most churches?
    No way, Jose, because it is so unpopular that it would cause
    a drop in attendance and, wait for it … a drop in tithes!
    (Lots of tithes are required to pay church salaries, mortgages, etc.)

    Change of subject ... It is critically important to be able to
    RECONCILE the 2 groups of NT Scriptures, which are:
    the so-called OSAS NT verses ...vs... those NT verses which oppose them.
    This RECONCILIATION is accomplished by understanding:
    the NT word "believe" must include obedience!
    This is true because of the NT verses which state obedience is necessary.
    Forget what some commentaries, even lexicons, might say …
    because these are written by indoctrinated man, and not by God.
    Please allow the Lord to speak the Truth for Himself through the NT.
    No NT verses/passages are to be ignored and/or rejected.

    True saving belief/faith     demands more than
    a simple belief in the John 3:16-type of verses.

    I hope and pray that this will help some believers to understand
    what the NT is supposed to be teaching us!
     
    #1 Samuels, Apr 4, 2021
  2. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Each of these topics has several verses supporting it …

    ● Loving Jesus leads to obedience – this maintains our salvation
    “IF you love me, obey my commandments. … You are my
    friends, IF you do what I command.” (John 14:15, 15:14, NLT)
    Do people who do NOT obey Jesus’ commands really love Him?
    Are such people really His friends? Do they get into heaven?

    ● Choosing obedience over sin – this maintains our righteousness
    “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR (slaves) of
    obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16, NKJV)

    ● Practicing righteousness maintains our righteousness
    “Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:10, NKJV)

    ● Repenting of sins is necessary to maintain our righteousness
    “IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us
    of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
    (1 John 1:9, NKJV)     “We must confess our sins and turn from them
    … This is true repentance.” (The Applied New Testament Commentary)

    ● Enduring in the faith is necessary to keep our salvation
    “… follow the example of those who are going to inherit
    God’s promises because of their faith and endurance.”
    (Hebrews 6:12, NLT)

    There are many conditional “IF” NT verses!

    And there are other similar topics with their proof verses.
     
    #2 Samuels, Apr 4, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  3. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    I prefer not to look over my shoulder thinking am I going to loose my salvation today because I did not resist?

    If I really am saved I would soldier on as a soldier.

    I have the luxury to look down therefore, on others who might say, "I was a Christian but I disappointed God or vice-versa so I stopped."

    My perseverance or lack of does not negate the work of Christ.

    I will rely on 1 John 1:9.
     
    #3 SGO, Apr 4, 2021
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  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The OP. does not seem to grasp that biblical salvation is 100% of God.
     
    #4 Iconoclast, Apr 4, 2021
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  5. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Yes, so do I.
    For only our old-past-previous sins (before being born again)
    have been cleansed by Jesus' blood (2 Peter 1:9).
     
    #5 Samuels, Apr 5, 2021
  6. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Then, why all of the many warning verses in the NT (written to the churches)?
    Answer: They are all there for people like you to ignore/reject.

    And Jesus gave quite a few instructive warnings as well ... to everyone in the Gospels.
     
    #6 Samuels, Apr 5, 2021
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I think they're written for people like you to Learn what salvation really is.

    warnings are actually a means of grace
     
    #7 Iconoclast, Apr 5, 2021
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  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Can you give me one verse which teaches that someone was saved and had salvation taken from that person.
     
    #8 37818, Apr 5, 2021
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  9. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    That whistle needs to be blown a bit louder.

    What is the point of warning folks about anything. It doesn't work with a system that requires some chosen with the exclusive license to sin.


    Snobby obnoxious self proclaimed chosen/elect people........ I'm talking about Pharisees by the way.

    Are they still around here today? Snobby obnoxious self proclaimed chosen/elect people?

    Has anyone seen one today? Do they even exist?
     
    #9 utilyan, Apr 5, 2021
  10. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    As if I were. That is what sin is about: not doing the right thing when you know what the right thing is. It is not quite at the level when admit you are with me yet hold it over me: "people like you to ignore/reject".
     
    #10 SGO, Apr 5, 2021
  11. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Absolutely ... of course they are!
    But, we are responsible for heeding them.
     
    #11 Samuels, Apr 5, 2021
  12. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    What's wrong with Romans 6:16 in the OP?
    If a BAC chooses to remain a slave of sin, he/she ends up experiencing eternal death.
    If a BAC chooses to be a slave of obedience, he/she ends up being considered righteous.
    (BAC = Born-Again Christian)

    BTW, yesterday I heard Cefalo Dollar on TV say ...
    those whom God has made righteous cannot lose that righteousness!
    How ludicrous!

    "In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
    Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God,
    nor is he who does not love his brother." (1 John 3:10)
     
    #12 Samuels, Apr 5, 2021
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Isn't that the idea?
    That being said, there are false professions among the true church.
    The warnings might cause them to examine themselves as to if they are savingly United to Christ, and might force them to deal with the true and living God.
     
    #13 Iconoclast, Apr 5, 2021
  14. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    MIGHT ... and are there some BACs who will not, do not, etc. examine and deal?

    News Flash ... all humans are created with free will.

    Working against co-operating with the Holy Spirit are Satan and the flesh.
    It's two against One.
    The One being that still small voice of the Holy Spirit.
    If you have One, you have all Three.

    Jesus' sheep hear His voice (John 10:27).
    Heard His voice lately?
    Jesus' sheep follow Him (John 10:27).
    Do you follow Him?
     
    #14 Samuels, Apr 5, 2021
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I get so tired of people who believe in salvation by law taking Bible verses to tell us they can also lose salvation by law.

    Failure to understand grace leads to "must" syndrome. The OP reveals a salvation and loss of salvation by law theology.
     
    #15 AustinC, Apr 5, 2021
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  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Breaking news.....free will not found anywhere in The Bible.
     
    #16 Iconoclast, Apr 6, 2021
  17. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    People who fell away from the faith and never repent of that before their deaths were never born of God.
    The idea some have of a BAC seems written into emotional relationships. While a true born of God person the relationship is written into their entire being.

    There may be many or few non BAC in any particular church. Clearly warnings existed in OT and NT scriptures about departing from God, and these are written for our example so as to not be like the others. Since God's Spirit is in charge of who gets born of Him, Calvinists really don't have an issue with this question, or 'problem'.

    25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.

    26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

    27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

    28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

    29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

    30 I and My Father are one.”
     
    #17 Scott Downey, Apr 6, 2021
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  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Where in OP?
    John 3:16 is not Romans 6:16.
    Romans 6:16, ". . . Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Says not a thing about someone being saved and then that salvation being had then taken away.

    Please answer my request:
     
    #18 37818, Apr 6, 2021
  19. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    The OP reveals a loss of salvation by NT verses/passages!
    I have a very simple and logical question (of which I know the answer, BTW) ...

    WHY do BACs insist on ignoring and/or rejecting
    the NT warning verses/passages about losing salvation?
     
    #19 Samuels, Apr 6, 2021
  20. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Oh, man, another one of those!
    Please, Lord, give me a break!
    Question to everyone: Have you put this deluded one on "IGNORE" yet?

    FYI, da mostest famous one is probably ...
    "Choose ye this day cursing or blessing." (paraphrased from the OT)
     
    #20 Samuels, Apr 6, 2021
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