Understanding the NT re: eternal security

[Alan Gross]

saved souls were offered to choose life or death.

maybe these will help.

0.0.1: 50 to 60 verses which the lost & others seem to think to teach man is something more than God.

 

[Samuels]

Can you give me one verse which teaches that someone was saved and had salvation taken from that person.

This has been a fun favorite of mine for a few years ...
Hebrews 10 (NKJV):
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

A trinity of News Flashes
--- Grace is like all other gifts; it can be taken back.
--- God has always accomplished His purposes with
the co-operation of man (creation notwithstanding).
--- The new covenant is like all other covenants ...
both parties must co-operate, abide by the rules, etc.

The new covenant is NOT about saying,
"I'm born-again and I'm going to heaven!",
and then living in some habitual sin(s).
Here are some NT "sin lists" which warn that ...
habitual sinners cannot be part of the kingdom of God
(1 Corin. 6:9-10, Gal. 5:19-21, Eph. 5:3-5, Revel. 21:7-8).

 

[1689Dave]

If we are saved by having faith that God has saved us, we cannot be saved if we think the possibility of losing salvation exists.

 

[37818]

This has been a fun favorite of mine for a few years ...
Hebrews 10 (NKJV):
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

It says "we are not of those who draw back to predition, . . ." How did those who drew back to have lived by faith to have been saved? Honestly I do not see there saved persons having salvation taken from them. But drawing back from having the faith in order to obtain salvation. Do you have a better reference?

 

[SavedByGrace]

The OP. does not seem to grasp that biblical salvation is 100% of God.

So the saved can continue in a life of sin and still get to heaven

 

[Samuels]

Why don't we look at specifics instead of generalities?

If a non-believer is a habitual (unrepentant) adulterer he/she goes to hell.
If a BAC is a habitual (unrepentant) adulterer he/she goes to heaven.
Isn't the grace of God wonderful?

Not on My watch, the Lord says!

 

[Samuels]

It says "we are not of those who draw back to predition, . . ." How did those who drew back to have lived by faith to have been saved? Honestly I do not see there saved persons having salvation taken from them. But drawing back from having the faith in order to obtain salvation. Do you have a better reference?

Hebrews 10 (NKJV):
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

I suppose you see that this is talking about
believers who are classified as being "just".

Some of them "live by faith" (and all of what this entails),
and it would be nice to understand what the NT word "believe" really means!

Some of them do not, but choose to "fall back" from the faith.
These unfaithful ones go to you know where.

BTW, Ephesians was written to "the faithful" believers (1:1), and so was Colossians (1:2).
Paul was NOT writing to the unfaithful believers in those churches.

 

[37818]

Hebrews 10 (NKJV):
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

I suppose you see that this is talking about
believers who are classified as being "just".

Some of them "live by faith" (and all of what this entails),
and it would be nice to understand what the NT word "believe" really means!

Some of them do not, but choose to "fall back" from the faith.
These unfaithful ones go to you know where.

BTW, Ephesians was written to "the faithful" believers (1:1), and so was Colossians (1:2).
Paul was NOT writing to the unfaithful believers in those churches.

Again I understand those who drew back drew back from choosing to believe. Which those who believe did not. What evidence do you have those who drew back had believed to the saving of their souls?

 

[George Antonios]

When I became born-again ...
I was totally OPEN with no pre-conceived false doctrines.
And now also ... I believe in no unscriptural doctrines, but
I believe in what the NT clearly teaches!

Some years ago, I collected approximately 20 NT passages
which clearly threaten the loss of salvation.
And there were quite a few more verses which hinted at this fact,
but which simply served to confirm the truth of the obvious 20.

But, do you think you’re going to hear this from most churches?
No way, Jose, because it is so unpopular that it would cause
a drop in attendance and, wait for it … a drop in tithes!
(Lots of tithes are required to pay church salaries, mortgages, etc.)

Change of subject ... It is critically important to be able to
RECONCILE the 2 groups of NT Scriptures, which are:
the so-called OSAS NT verses ...vs... those NT verses which oppose them.
This RECONCILIATION is accomplished by understanding:
the NT word "believe" must include obedience!
This is true because of the NT verses which state obedience is necessary.
Forget what some commentaries, even lexicons, might say …
because these are written by indoctrinated man, and not by God.
Please allow the Lord to speak the Truth for Himself through the NT.
No NT verses/passages are to be ignored and/or rejected.

True saving belief/faith demands more than
a simple belief in the John 3:16-type of verses.

I hope and pray that this will help some believers to understand
what the NT is supposed to be teaching us!

The reconciliation of the two groups of verses is simply dispensational:

• Eternal Security is truth during the church age.
• Eternal Security is heresy during the tribulation and the millennial kingdom.

Both doctrines are Biblical, hence the controversy.
It's just a question of dispensational context.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[George Antonios]

Grace is like all other gifts; it can be taken back.

Rom_11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [on God's part, i.e. he won't change his mind about them].

In the tribulation and the millennial kingdom, salvation will no more be a free gift, thus loss of salvation will once again be a possibility, as it was under the law.

 

[37818]

. . . it would be nice to understand what the NT word "believe" really means!

The word is the same word. It is the how and what one believes. Matthew 7:21, Luke 8:13, 2 Corinthians 4:3, etc.

 

[atpollard]

When I became born-again ...
I was totally OPEN with no pre-conceived false doctrines.
And now also ... I believe in no unscriptural doctrines, but
I believe in what the NT clearly teaches!

Every Christian believes what the Bible "clearly teaches" ... they just disagree on what is clearly taught.

Romans 14:5-13 [NKJV]

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written:

“As I live, says the LORD,

Every knee shall bow to Me,

And every tongue shall confess to God.”

So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.​

 

[Iconoclast]

So the saved can continue in a life of sin and still get to heaven

Christians still are able to sin and in fact sin every day in thought word or deed. They are no longer under sins reigning power, and do not habitually commit sin, but we do sin, and yes, we will still go to heaven.

 

[Iconoclast]

Rom_11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [on God's part, i.e. he won't change his mind about them].

In the tribulation and the millennial kingdom,
salvation will no more be a free gift,
thus loss of salvation will once again be a possibility, as it was under the law.

George, where do you think you see this?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Christians still are able to sin and in fact sin every day in thought word or deed. They are no longer under sins reigning power, and do not habitually commit sin, but we do sin, and yes, we will still go to heaven.

But we need to repent daily as 1 John 1:8-10 tells us

 

[atpollard]

If a BAC is a habitual (unrepentant) adulterer he/she goes to heaven.

... you are discussing a "married bachelor" (something which is a logical self-contradiction and cannot exist). You are asking:

• 'what if someone has had their heart and mind transformed by God and hasn't had their heart and mind transformed by God, will they still go to heaven along with those that have had their heart and mind transformed by God?'

The question is nonsensical.

 

[atpollard]

But we need to repent daily as 1 John 1:8-10 tells us

It said nothing about "daily".

 

[37818]

In the tribulation and the millennial kingdom, salvation will no more be a free gift, thus loss of salvation will once again be a possibility, as it was under the law.

May not be as you think. Salvation can only be received by the mercy of God.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It said nothing about "daily".

Check Job chapter 1

 

[SavedByGrace]

It said nothing about "daily".

New King James Version Job 1:5 So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did regularly.