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Featured The Great God and Saviour of us Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Depends by whom. I don't
     
    #81 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Do you speak from knowledge
     
    #82 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I am just saying that among those in the know, he is!
     
    #83 Yeshua1, Jun 24, 2021
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I am not speaking towards using that rule outside of ther Bible....
     
    #84 Yeshua1, Jun 24, 2021
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Sharps rule is also wrong from the Bible!
     
    #85 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The simple truth is, not every reader of Titus 2:13 agree that this KJV translation makes "our Savior Jesus Christ" not to be "the great God" who is the one glorious Person to be appearing.
     
    #86 37818, Jun 24, 2021
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    May I recommend an excellent book: The Trinity by Edward Bickersteth (Kregel, ISBN 0-8254-2226-4).
    It was a required reading at the little part-time seminary where I studied, and it has a radically different approach from any other book on the subject that I have read. There are literally dozens of parallel texts from Old and New Testaments which show that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are Jehovah.

    Just a very brief sampling. Compare
    1 Kings 8:39 with Revelation 2:23,
    Jeremiah 23:24 with Ephesians 4:10,
    Malachi 3:6 with Hebrews 13:8,
    Psalm 119:11 with Colossians 3:16,
    Benesis 5:3 with 1 Peter 3:20,
    Isaiah 53:10 with Numbers 14:11.
     
    #87 Martin Marprelate, Jun 24, 2021
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    This is what Thomas Middleton said in his excellent work on the Greek article, about Sharp's 4th example in his "rules" on 2 Thess. 1:12, "“κατὰ τὴν χάριν τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ”

    “This is another of the texts on which Mr. Granville Sharp would rest the doctrine of the Divinity of Jesus Christ, by rendering " of our God and Lord." To the validity, however, of this and of one or two others of his proofs, there are objections, which I ought not to suppress…On the whole, then, I am disposed to think, that the present text affords no certain evidence in favour of Mr. Sharp” (Thomas Middleton, The Doctrine of the Greek Article: Applied to the Criticism and Illustration of the New Testament, pp.379, 382)
     
    #88 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    thanks for this, I have this great book and recommend it to everyone who is interested in the study of the Holy Trinity.
     
    #89 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying that his rule does not fit Titus and 1 peter then?
     
    #90 Yeshua1, Jun 24, 2021
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    In the case of the older translations, I think it is just that Granville Sharp had not yet done his stuff. The JWs, of course have doctored the bible to suit their faulty theology.
     
    #91 Martin Marprelate, Jun 24, 2021
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  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I am saying that in Titus 2.13 there are three possible readings as in the OP. Even without this rule the Deity of Jesus is established
     
    #92 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I could accept you an student in Bible studies but never as a master which you seem to think of your self.
    The Christian doctrine is all about being inspired to seek God with all your heart.When you become driven for reasons other than self prestige
    MB
     
    #93 MB, Jun 24, 2021
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    See the 3rd natural reading in the OP
     
    #94 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    "Consequently, in Titus 2:13 and 2 Pet 1:1 we are compelled to recognize that, on a grammatical level, a heavy burden of proof rests with the one who wishes to deny that “God and Savior” refers to one person, Jesus Christ." (Dr. Dan Wallace)
     
    #95 Van, Jun 24, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    That is Wallace :eek:
     
    #96 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Look at #17
     
    #97 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 13:8 refers the post resurrected Christ. Not His change of incarnation, or the changes at His deaths or that final change where He became as in Hebrews 13:8 by means of His resurrection.
     
    #98 37818, Jun 24, 2021
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Look at #17
     
    #99 SavedByGrace, Jun 24, 2021
  20. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    How dishonest!

    Tit_2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

    As a Lebanese man in the Middle East reading that I rejoiced to see Christ here identified as the great God and have used that verse in the KJB to prove the deity of Christ in witnessing.
    Ever heard of a hendiadys?
     
    #100 George Antonios, Jun 24, 2021
    • Winner Winner x 2
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